I've been doing this now for over a year and the results are tremendous. I have chicken like its just been pulled from the bone. It doesn't matter if it is breast meat or otherwise either although of course thighs are just so melt in mouth.

I wish I had seen this post earlier. Very interesting Panpot, thank you very much.

Quote from: Cory Ander on November 25, 2008, 08:50 AM
I'm also suprised that they pre-cook the chicken in an oven for 25 mins?

Just made mine....

500 mls veg oil (Will use ghee next time)
1 tsp Cumin seed.
3 green Cardamom
1 Black Cardamom
1 small onion large chunks (I used this to gauge the temp).
2 Dried red chillies
1 1/2 inch piece cinamon.
1 1/2 tsp Panch Phoran

I placed the whole lot in cold oil and warmed it until I could see the edges of the onion turning light brown and allowed to cool.

The result is pretty much what I see here frankly but one thing I will say is that it smelled wonderful while it was at a brisk heat, no different to my bahjis at all in fact.

I forgot to add whole coriander seeds

I'm sure it will make a huge difference frankly to the final dish and another point that I found quite by mistake is that what I smell in my Spinach dishes is in fact.

Asofotida (Phew!)

Anyway I think it will work provided there is enough of a marriage with stronger spicing at the start.   

I thought you might find this interesting?
http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-ayurvedic-or-relatively-healthy-indian-food-in-chicago

"(believe me if you find it oily here, you'd have no words for how oily it can be in India)"

&

"Also the pool of oil can also be due to the fact that they add heated oil with spices in at the end of the cooked dish as a garnish(kind of). So for example, "Dal Tadka" - the 'tadka' is that pool of heated oil with spices like cumin, mustard seeds, red chillies, bay leaves, etc in it."

I've just got my pan out with oil in it. Just looking for the various recipes now.

Thanks again for the links Jerry.
There are 10 videos on that recipe by the way. I saw two posted at the same time, sorry about that. I'll look out the links for the separate pages.

My intention with this was to produce a little more. I only use about 1 tsp per dish so its not that strong at all really. In fact its rather mild having all been cooked together.

I generally start the pan with a few dry spices before I add the Garlic & Ginger and almost always now opt for strands which is why I started this thread in the hope someone could confirm they have seen this too?

I then add the tom paste/onion mixture after Garlic/Ginger has been cooking for just under a minute and at the same time add fresh green chillies. (Not many ~ about 4 chopped). It's right about that point when the Chillies hit the hot oil that I get what I'm looking for but it soon died with my old base. I'm hoping that Bruce's will bounce this back in my favor since it really does smell soooo good.  ;D

I've no idea what they do with my spinach dishes. All seem different but all have that wonderful back taste, especially one place. Fast becoming my favourite dish frankly :

Either today or tomorrow I'll try CQ's spiced oil and see what I think of that. I'm almost certain now, (I think we are both erring on that) that this is where the rest of the taste hides? (Hopefully anyway).

One restaurant owner confirmed that this paste is what they do but I'm not sure about how or what they do to theirs? Must find out..

Many thanks again.

Quote from: JerryM on October 18, 2009, 10:41 AM
i also agree spiced oil is a piece of the jigsaw.

ps in comparing your recipe with what i do already i realised that i use tandoori masala in place of the garam masala when making the ashoka paste. big difference i know but the tandoori and Cinnamon seem to compliment each other. i've added a woops post to the ashoka thread https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg34862#msg34862

If I had just one dollar for every time I've asked myself that question. They always ask me how hot I want it here which is confusing so I tried something a bit different. I used commercial 'Hot Sauce'.

I'm not saying they do this but it was very close and simple to do on the fly. I added way too much and the vinegar from the sauce overpowered it just a little. But........ I had no lamb in the sauce cooking. Hopefully CA when I've made some of that spice oil posted here I'll finally get top/middle/bottom as regards taste at last.

Its always the middle taste that was missing from my cooking (most times) anyway.
I often thought............
If I could only make my curry smell and taste as good as my Bahjis, I'd be happy.

Becoming a bit of a limp wrist these days as regards heat myself. They tone it down a load unless I stipulate.

I'm sure its liquid based heat. Are they any chillies in that spice oil? I'll go look. Good post as usual CA.

Regards.

Quote from: Cory Ander on October 17, 2009, 01:41 PM
Hi all,

I have a bit of a problem. 

I love very hot curries (e.g phals).  But that's not my problem!  My problem is how to get the heat (i.e. piquancy) without getting the bitterness, "powderiness" or rawness associated with adding loads of chili powder (even extra hot) or fresh chilies (even habeneros) to a curry?

Do BIRs only add chili powder to get the heat/piquancy?  Or do they add some form of pre-fried paste?  Or do they add some type of commercial chili paste or sauce (I have seen BIRs use a chili paste.....which they gave to me to demonstrate how hot their phal might be)?

So how do they get lots of chili (i.e. heat/piquancy) into their curry without it being bitter, powdery or raw tasting?  Chili powder easily burns I find (and hence becomes bitter)

Do BIRs fry the chili powder (in oil, for example) beforehand? 

Do they use a blend of fresh chilies in oil/vinegar (maybe also precooked?)?

In short, how do BIRs make a phal?

Any advice and suggestions most welcome!

Hey Jerry thanks. Got there this time.
Yeah I also used 4 oz tom paste (Tiny Tin) sorry about that and for seeing two videos. There are 10 on there if anyone is interested checking them out?

I still think its the spiced oil however, although this will go a long way to helping provide that final touch. On speaking with an Indian Mom yesterday I was surprised just how similar her home cooked 4 dinner sauce was to many base sauces including prepping. In fact I was taken back.. She's going to ask around and see if there is a Chef willing to teach me and help fill in the blanks so you never know..  Gotta keep asking right?

Thanks again Jerry. ;D

Quote from: JerryM on October 17, 2009, 08:21 AM
Mikka,

much appreciate the info.

have attached a better link to the original which must have been archived https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3128.msg27899#msg27899.

your version is much more spicier. will have a good watch of the video later.

the ashoka and original make a caramelised onion paste that has a hint of Cinnamon. i don't feel it's the spice that makes it work in the dish. it's a bit like garlic in non Asian cooking - u know when it's not there.

I just wanted to add that I used a 12 oz tin of tomato paste, not the huge tin he used. I also freeze it in a plastic food bag just like I always do then break off and thaw pieces as I need them.

This added to FRESH green chillies at the point of cooking is.......... well.............
I've also just derived a base sauce recipe based on Bruces. Man its soooo good to see him using so much Turmeric. And there are those that say it has no taste huh?

So far as I know I think I'm the first to post such a recipe. I'd be glad if anyone seeing something similar all of a sudden crop up in 'Other places' would let me know.

Cheers its yours let me know what you think if you try it?

PS.
Watch the Video VERY carefully and follow it. Like I said I don't have his spice combo but mine works a treat.

Spicy Tomato Paste if this is bunjara? I've no idea but here is what I do with it.

2 Onions very finely chopped.
1/8 TSP Sugar
1 TSP Cumin seed.
? TSP Coriander Seeds
4 Cloves
1/8 inch piece of Cinamon
2 green Cardamoms
1 TBS Dried fenugreek leaves
1/8 TSP Fennel seeds (Or to taste)
1/8 TSP Garlic Powder
1/8 TSP Celery seed
1 TSP Coriander POWDER
1/8 TSP Kocher Salt
1/8 TSP Black Pepper Seeds.
1/8 TSP Anadarna powder
? TSP Dried Cilantro
1 Pinch Citric acid.

Method.

The best way to describe this is follow this set of video's. I've no idea what combinations he used but mine after a few failures now adds something a little extra at the start of the dish and replaces ordinary tomato paste.

YouTube.
Curry sauce base 1

Quote from: JerryM on October 16, 2009, 08:11 AM
this is what's called bunjarra or onion paste for me. i see it as a key ingredient and make a batch in parallel with making base. i've added links in case of interest. i can't decide which i like best and tend to alternate. they need no improvement.

Hi Jerry thanks again. The 1st link is off limits to me, no worries.
Will look through the Ashoka thread.

Thanks again.

Quote from: JerryM on October 16, 2009, 08:11 AM

this is what's called bunjarra or onion paste for me. i see it as a key ingredient and make a batch in parallel with making base. i've added links in case of interest. i can't decide which i like best and tend to alternate. they need no improvement.

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1515.0
, https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg28517#msg28517

Having nearly done everything and having come in after a few hours to smell my house, think its on the nail, only to find I have to wait three days for it to taste anything like the restaurant version I'm sold on this and will have a go a.s.a.p.

Some of the images here look just about right on the oil. I've suspected something like this might be responsible for some time but never really looked into it. 

It makes complete 100% sense to me, even if you do reclaim it but I won't be doing that.
As regards straining the contents a muslin cloth or an old cotton T-Towel should do the trick. I've used this method many times when straining chicken stock.

Thanks very much for an open forum folks.
;D