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Messages - Muttley

#51
Having only a couple of days ago posted a thread calling for people to consider freeing themselves from the desire to emulate resturant food, it might seem a little odd that I'm now posting a thread on making a resturant curry sauce.

It is just that after posting the thread, I once again started musing on how to get what the average British Indian Resturant (BIR) gets. Instead of attacking the problem on the basis of ideas and sauces other people had already posted, or, indeed, old attempts of my own, I tried to think about what must go on in BIR's, many of whom have very small kitchens, and yet manage to produce a large range of dishes, often to an excellent standard.

One thing is for sure: they can't prepare each dish from scratch, marinating the meat first as one would with Indian home cooking. Considering what's possible, and what I've seen from a couple of open plan takaway kitchens, each of which seemed to have an unbelievably small area available for the number of dishes they could come up with, I came to the following conclusion (which, I'm sure many others have come to before - hence this sub forum).

They obviously have one or two basic sauces from which all other sauces are derived (probably one with youghurt, and one without). These sauces will be minimally spiced. The only spces that will be added are those that need to cook for a long time with the other ingredients in order to completely combine, and gain that elusive depth that BIR sauces seem to have.

Clearly, a restuarant preparing as many dishes as the average BIR will want a basic sauce with no keynote spices, as these would interfere with the spicing of the individual dishes.

From my experience, it seemed to me that these minimum spices are probably limited to aesofetida, turmeric and cumin. Corriander may also be one of these base spices.

The other important point about BIR cooking is that it is obviously impossible for them to keep cooking up small batches of basic sauce. They'd get into a terrible state trying to keep up with varying demnds. Neither, I'm pretty sure, will they throw away the left over sauce at the end of each sitting.

My guess is that they keep a large pot of basic sauce on the go all the time, and top it up as the level goes down with batches that they either cook on a continuing basis, prepare and chill/freeze or even buy in.

So the sauce they are actually using could well contain very small quantities that are weeks old, with ever larger proportions of newer batches. Whether or not the presence of elements of the sauce that may have been being cooked for days actually has any effect on the flavour/texture I don't know.

One further point. The sauce must be sufficiently liquid that it can be left without glooping or sticking. If there was any tendency to stick, then at some point it would stick, and the whole system would eventually grind to a halt.

So, this is what I did.

Heated about 200ml of oil (yes, I know most basic sauces use more, but bear with me - I couldn't see any logical reason to, and this worked).
Added a level tablespoon of chopped ginger, and a similar quantity of chopped garlic. The temperature of the oil was such that the garlic and ginger made a quiet sizzeling sound, and gradually turned brown over the course of about ten minutes. This is to allow it to cook thoroughly without burning.

About two minutes before the garlic and ginger was browned, I added: 1/2 tsp aesofetida, 3 tsp Turmeric, 3 tsp ground cumin, and 1/2 tsp ground chilli.

Two minutes later I added four large sliced onions and stirred them around to let the oil cover them (don't know why - superstition, perhaps). I then added enough water to almost cover the onions.

This mixture was then allowed to simmer quite gently for an hour.

At the end of the hour a can of chopped tomatos was added - simmering continued.

An hour later this mixture was pureed with a hand blender.

Up to this point I had been cooking it in a large stock pot so that I could use the blender without covering te kitchen with sauce. I now transfered the mixture to two saucepans. I added a teaspoon of ground corriander to one, and set them both on a bare simmer, and left them for 4 hours, just giving them the occasional stir to make sure they weren't sticking (they weren't).

At the end of this time, what did I have ?

Well, two pots of something that looked exactly like the sauce that a typical Madras or vindaloo comes in. The taste, whilst obviously not being anything like a good curry (although I'd swear I've been dished up with a "Madras" that was made with something like this), has that unmistakeable depth that BIR curries have.

The sauce with the corriander has a slightly brighter, fruitier flavour. I don't think it was necessary to add it to the basic sauce, but it wouldn't do any harm if your final curry should have corriander flavour. It seems to be a very robust spice that does not degrade with long cooking.

The next step was to try the sauce to actually make a dish.

To do this I simply fryied some onion until golden, added some diced chicken and cooked until the chicken was done. Five minutes before the end I added a half tsp of garam masala.

The result was something that as far as I could tell cound not be distinguished from a BIR Madras. I've yet to try the experiment, but I'm pretty sure that if I put it in a foil container, and offered it to someone alongside a good takeaway, they would never be able to say which dish came from the resturant. (They might be able to differentiate it from one that came from a particular resturant with which they were familair, of course).

Well, sorry for the ramble, but this is something I've been trying to do, off and on, for a long time, and I wanted to share some of the thoughs behind what I did, as well as the recipe. I'll post a short version as well.
#52
I'll give it a while to see how it develops. It will depend on how many members you get.

One problem all forum sites have is that there is a threshold of activity. When the site activity is below this threshold, even the keenest participants look in less and less. Once it gets over the threshold, it will generate a self sustaining level of interest.

I'd certainly like to say thank you to the site's owner(s) for setting it up.

Quote from: tempest63 on January 03, 2005, 10:04 AM'''
uk.food+drink.indian has led the way for a good few years but seems to have tailed off recently, however I believe this may be due to a few overbearing Know-it-alls who have joined in the last couple of years and constantly ridicule anybody whose own views are not the same as their own.
Don't forget, that those people tend to ridicule each other as well.

It's rather sad, reading through the archives, to see two people, both of whom seem quite knowlegable and helpful, tearing at each other's throats.

Mind you, I'm an argumentaive b****r myself at times.

#53
Is it okay to use dried methi leaves?

Would you use the same quantity?
#54
Lets Talk Curry / Re: Members convention
January 10, 2005, 05:18 PM
I think it's a great idea, but given the wide area that the members of a group such as this will come from, I doubt that it would get the attendance.

One problem with organising these things is that people will say they'll come, and then not turn up. I've seen events that groups have organised where twenty people said they'd go, and the organisers have ended up with just one person.

It's a great pity, but it seems to be a fact of life.
#55
Lets Talk Curry / Re: Is curry the next day better?
January 10, 2005, 05:14 PM
I try to get all the cooking done an hour and a half before we're due to eat. Then I go for a nice long walk, whick stimulates the apetite, and clears the nose (when we've got guests, I have to content myself with going into another room). Then, half an hour before eating, I get the rice on, prepare the raita, etc, and generally find I'm as ready for the curry as if someone else cooked it.

If I am cooking with steaming dishes under my nose right up untl it's time to eat, I never find the meal as satisfying.
#56
Lets Talk Curry / Re: Resturant tyranny
January 10, 2005, 02:06 PM
Quote from: Mark J on January 10, 2005, 01:34 PM
I think everyone would agree that the last thing we would want this forum to turn into is bitching between the authentic and Indian restaurant camps.
I promise you that I do not want to do that.

I was just trying to spread the word that there are many dishes that you can cook that don't leave you with the feeling: "Well, it's almost what I wanted, but it's not quite like the Shapla (or whatever)".
#57
Lets Talk Curry / Re: Resturant tyranny
January 10, 2005, 02:02 PM
Quote from: Curry King on January 10, 2005, 12:13 PM

Your entitled to your opinion
Thank you. That's very generous.

I wasn't suggesting that there was anything wrong with trying to produce a resturant curry, I was just sharing the realisation I've come to that concentrating to too great an extent on that aspect of Indian cooking might be stopping people from getting as much ejoyment as they otherwise might from their attempts.

I rather wish someone had told me some years ago to stop trying to emulate a resturant curry, and be satisfied with something more akin to Indian home cooking.

Having said all that, I'm going to have one last try at creating the delicious brown sludge that we all so much admire in Indian resturant food.
#58
Lets Talk Curry / Resturant tyranny
January 09, 2005, 08:39 PM
(Edit: I've just noticed some very similar sentiments to those expressed below as I read some more of the current posts here. Sorry for the duplication.)

Whilst perusing uk.food+drink.indian, I came across a pointer to this site.

It look good, but I notice that two of the forums mention "resturant" recipes and sauces. I wonder how many of the members here feel as I do (now) that the perpetual search for an "authentic" resturant curry is becoming a bit of a tyranny that is preventing people from appreciating what they are cooking as good? or even excellent Indian food in its own right.

I posted this in uk.food+drink.indian. I'd be interested in the views of any others who feel that they have freed themselves from the apparantly futile quest to exactly emulate Indian resturant dishes.

Posted------
Last night I went to an Indian resturant for the first time in a while. I've
been cooking cooking my own Indian food for quite a while now, so haven't been
eating it out as much.

I was really looking forward to having some of the "real thing".

We went to a very good resturant - nothing flashy, just reliably good food. The
quality of what we ordered was well up to standard, but, as I began to eat it, I
found myself rather disappointed. I suddenly realised that I actually prefer the
Indian food I prepare myself!

For quite a long time, I tried all sorts of things to make my curries
"authentic" - a ridiculous notion since the food you get in Indian resturants in
this country bears little resemblance to the food you get in India, but, like
most people here, I got my first (well, first few hundred) tastes of Indian food
in English Indian resturants, and I always wanted to be able to recreate those
dishes.

It was a while back now that I realised that I'd *never* recreate a typical
Indian resturaunt dish, because I'd *never* use the amount of gee/oil that they
use in theirs. Nevertheless, it was these I was still judging my results
against.

Now I've had this epihany, I feel a real freedom to push the envelope further,
and experiment with the multitude of flavours and recipes from the sub
continent, rather than trying to emulate the rather limited range of dishes that
one sees in the typical British "Indian", delicious though these may be.

Of course, I'll never stop going to Indian resturants, but it will no longer be
to sample food that I am trying to emulate.