Quote from: Mark J on May 17, 2005, 08:24 AM
But surely the BIR's dont use an ingredient like black cardamom, apart from possibly in the base?

I think some curry houses must be using them somewhere, as the place reeks of them in the nicest way. I can only think they are used in the cooking of the meat...?

Quote from: TheAffectionBath on May 16, 2005, 05:31 PM
I know topic has moved on a bit, but a local takeaway near me has the most beautiful "smokey" smell when you enter.? It took me a while to place it, but it turns out it is black cardomoms ...lovely? - my jar of these is over 5 years old and still they are very pungent when slit open...

Indeed, black cardomans are the soure of the smokey taste. However, we are still struggling to find the correct way to use them in order to get the smokey smell into out curries!

My new line of research is that the flavouring picked up by the meat during its cooking is vital to the flavouring and aroma of the dish it is in. Tomorrow when I cook my meat in the stadnard way (oil, small amount of liquid, cook on low heat covered with some spices), I am going to overload on two things - cassia bark and black cardomanns. I hit on something today with my curry and I need to pin down what it was.

Not yet. At the moment I am concentrating on making my success with my current methods into something repeatable, that I can do reliably, every time.

I've tasted plain Dhillon sauce in a BIR before btw, in Shemons, Oxford . It was the sauce making up the biryani side dish.

Quote from: Curry King on May 13, 2005, 03:19 PM
This is quite interesting, I found this site http://www.surreycurryclub.co.uk/ while browsing.

If you look how many restaurants have signed up to it and abide by their policys concerning food standards.? Wouldn't being a member of this mean that they wouldn't be able to get away with a lot of the stuff people were concerned about, as in reusing oil over and over, chicken jellly etc... Surley if they have the "taste" it would mean its not achieved using "dodgy" methods.

This is in agreement with my findings. I've been making BIR attempt curries literally every night now for 3 weeks. In that time, I've hit nirvana twice. One time was with re-used oil, one was not. The last 4 I've made have been with reused oil, and they have not had 'the taste'.

I've never used chicken jelly. Howver, I've never had a leftover takeaway firm up at all in the fridge. to me this indicates no jelly (and no ghee of course, but we all know this).

Getting 'the taste' is a matter of using the correct amount of spice, and the right cooking technique. I think it's quite a delicate balance. I've re-traced the exact procedure that got me 'the taste', and not got it.

Quote from: Curry King on May 13, 2005, 12:57 PM

Quote from: thomashenry on May 13, 2005, 12:32 PM
Yeap, the gravy is bland. You combine it with oil, meat, veg, and spcies to make a dish.

Damn, I wondered why everyone looked at me funny when I served up 4 bowls of Dhillion gravy with oil, meat and veg in side dishes? ?:

Comic genius alert.

Look, you seemed to be complaining that the Dhillon sauce was bland, and that this was a problem with it. I was pointing out that it is meant to be bland, and that is is only an ingredient to a final dish. You add spices to it when cooking a dish. The final dish then ends up non bland. Westy and I have both had great success with it - if you haven't then you've been doing something wrong.

Quote from: Curry King on May 13, 2005, 12:06 PM
I tried the Dhillion gravy a while ago and thought it was very bland, I assumed that this was down to the fact that every recipe has garam masalla in to pep up the taste.? ?

Yeap, the gravy is bland. You combine it with oil, meat, veg, and spcies to make a dish. Don't follow Dhillon's dish recipies, they are crap. The base sauce however, is superb. Use Dhillon base, with MarkJ's dish recipies.

Quote from: Curry King on May 13, 2005, 10:38 AM

Quote from: thomashenry on May 13, 2005, 09:32 AM
If you want BIR curries at home, then I suggest Dhillon sauce, followed by the techniques Mark J observed in his curry house. It will take a few goes before you learn to get the ratio's of spice/sauce right; its very easy to over spice, but you learn to do it intuitively.

I think Dhillon's sauce and gerneral recipes are way of the mark, you get something that resembles a restaurant curry but its miles off.?

In that case you are doing something wrong. Yes, Dhillon gravy is meant to be bland. Its designed to be versatile, to be a base with which you can make many dishes, The spices come later.

Dhillon's actual curry recipies beyond the base leave something to be desired. Thats what I now use Dhillon base, with MarkJs dish techniques. Honestly - it is spot on. I can't do it.

Quote from: pete on May 13, 2005, 08:08 AM
I have had very good oven results too.
I believe the difficulty in cooking in a pan, like a restaurant, is because the curry gravy is so hard to get right.
Some restaurant meals are just curry gravy heated up with pre cooked meat!

Of course they are. The standard dishes (vindaloo, bhuna, curry, Jalfrezi, korma. etc) are all made by combing different pre prepared ingredients in a pan. There's no casserle going on!

If you want BIR curries at home, then I suggest Dhillon sauce, followed by the techniques Mark J observed in his curry house. It will take a few goes before you learn to get the ratio's of spice/sauce right; its very easy to over spice, but you learn to do it intuitively.

Quote from: Mark J on May 11, 2005, 06:23 PM
I think thats a bit harsh, bear in mind he produced all of these books in the eighties apart from a few early 90's and at that time there was nothing else even close to what he was trying to achieve.

His books do try and produce restaurant style dishes and he gives recipes for base sauces (the one above isn't that far away from many on this site).

His 'Indian Resturant Cookbook' books are a joke. His standard curry technique involves cooking the curry, with meat, in  the oven, like a casserole for 45 mins!

Thats about as far away from resturant technique as you can get.

Its a total scam of a book. None of the recipies in there came from a real resturant. If they did, then he has magically found 50 or so Resturants that produce food nothing like the other thousands of BIRs in the country   Its all standard Pat Chapmman techniques (ie ones which result in curries nothing like a BIR curry)

I don't know how Pat Chapman sleeps at night, he should be done for selling good under false pretences.