Hi,

In the restaurant here in Brisbane there is a big heavy iron 'pot', more like a big wok with handles but heavy/thick metal, it is used for frying everything from bhajis, to pakora's, samosa's, capsicum and onion chunks are sometimes quickly fried in it (pretty much dip in and pull out) as well when being used in final dishes.

At times the chef has got me to use some of this oil to make the onion gravy, other times it is fresh oil. I asked about it and he said it does add a little flavor but not essential. Eventually that oil gets old, within a week and is thrown out and a fresh batch of oil goes in.

The oil is never used in either butter gravy, korma gravy or the veg gravy because there may have been meat samosa's fried in it, or chicken pakoras. The chef, while not a vegetarian himself ensures that fresh oil that has not been used to cook meat in it is always used for vegetarian dishes.

For him, not an essential secret ingredient, it is there on top of the stove so is handy and reduces waste and does add a little flavor.

Note that the onion gravy made with fresh oil and the subsequent dishes never seem to be lacking flavor.

Cheers,
Mark

Hi CA,

I'm not sure what part of Aus you are in, but have you ever found an Indian Restaurant here that makes them as per BIR style.

I've never had BIR curries only Australian and Canadian, the Canadian were pretty much exactly the same as what we get here.

I know this is a hard ask, but how would you describe the differences?

Cheers,
Mark

Hi Terry,

Sorry for the delay but I found out I can't import unless it is commercially packaged even for amounts of 1kg  or less which leaves me high and dry here in Australia unfortunately.

Interesting that there is no turmeric in it, most of the mix powders seem to have loads of it in it. At the restaurant here where I work, not that we use mixed powder, but in our masalas that go into the gravies, very little turmeric is actually used.

Regards,
Mark

Hi ELW,

We do the following gravies to make the dishes with.

Onion Gravy
Butter Gravy
Korma Gravy
Veg Gravy
Vindaloo Gravy
Seafood Gravy

Each gravy is cooked from scratch and contains different ingredients. When a final dish is being prepared that contains multiple gravies, the different spices used in each gravy create a subtle difference in the finished dish. No  BIR mixed powder is used in the finished dishes as the spices are all contained in the gravies with the exception of finishing spices, black pepper, chili powder or garam masala.

The Veg Gravy for example is used for vegetarian dishes and contains besides a different spice mix, some whole seeds, (cumin, mustard, kalongi, fenugreek, fennel seeds) which are added at the start, along with some other whole spices. This adds a different depth of flavor as there is no meat/chicken stock added to the final dishes.

The Butter/Makhani Gravy has some whole spices added to hot oil, once they darken and expand/pop, the onions are added in and cooked/fried for a good 40 minutes till the volume has reduced by about half. At that point a big handful of methi leaves goes in and it fries for another 40 or so minutes with some salt added at this stage, and cooked until they have reduced right down and are quite dark. In goes the masala mix which is fried for a couple of minutes, then in with the ginger and garlic paste, cooked for another few minutes. Next comes tomato paste(the thick concentrated stuff) and a little water and then a whole lot of blended cashews, some food coloring and sugar. That is then bought back to a boil carefully so as to not have anything burn on the bottom and then it is cooked for on low heat for another hour or so till the oil starts to rise to the surface.

For our 'butter dishes' (Butter Chicken, Paneer Butter Masala etc) there is no actual butter ever added, strange but true! And it is by far the best Butter Chicken I have ever tasted.

The only issue with the 'curry mixing' that we do is that it is a whole lot of work to do just at home having to make 4-6 gravies, I don't like seafood so never worry about making that one at home.

Cheers,
Mark

One thing I forgot to add is that no Pataks or bought pastes are used at all, all masalas used for the gravies are made from scratch along with almost all of the condiments, ie the tamarind sauce, mint sauce for pakoras etc. A couple of packet mixed spices are used ie Bombay Biryani Masala and Chaat Masala, and a couple of pickles are bought as well as they are too time consuming to make.

Hi Jerry,

You mentioned the below in your review of the mix powder, has IFFU listed what is in the mix and the proportions so that you can compare?

Quote... the infindforu mix is not far different in terms of what's in it ie both are very close in proportions and
ingredients. ...

I'm in Australia and can't import the mix powder due to customs regulations and didn't think would be able to reproduce due to the ingred list not being posted, perhaps I missed that?

Regards,
Mark

Hi,

In regards to the missing flavor and the overload of the sense of smell when cooking the dishes, I think unfortunately it is a red herring.

My reason for saying this is that when I started training in the restaurant here making the base gravies, I would start at 2:00pm, cutting onions for the first hour, then making the gravies for the next 3 hours.

Around 6:00pm things start getting busy and depending upon how much is going on, I will either be grabbing ingredients for the chef or cooking the dishes myself, under his watchful eye. As part of my training the chef would get me to taste the dishes while we were cooking. And I can say that even after standing in a very small shop where there is no separation between the kitchen and the front counter, the dishes tasted perfect and smelt perfect, even after cooking very large amounts in a very confined space.

Admittedly when I got home my wife says I stink of curry and fried samosas etc, but I can't smell it, but I could certainly taste how the curries were supposed to taste, and smell how they were meant to.

The bases are full of spices, no such thing as mixed powder, it is similar in process to Ashoka whereby multiple gravies are made which have a large amount of spices and are then mixed to make different dishes, with only a sprinkle of spices at the cooking stage. Ie for Chicken Tikka Masala, butter gravy is used along with a pinch of black pepper and methi, onion and capsicum, and a little cream. A Rogan Josh is a mix of onion gravy, butter gravy, tamarind, pinch of mace powder and a little sugar and salt. Madras is mustard seeds, curry leaves, chili powder, onion gravy, coconut milk powder and a pinch of salt. Butter Chicken is nothing more then butter gravy, pinch of salt, pinch of garam masala, cream and methi.

As much as I have learnt from working in the restaurant, I have also learnt that it is sometimes so much more enjoyable to go and pay the $40 for 4 dishes locally and sit back and enjoy them thoroughly rather then spending 4-6 hours making the base gravies and dishes.

Cheers,
Mark

Hi Missy,

I know your email was directed at CA but thought I would let you know how it is made here in Aus in the shop to give you some other ideas.

1. Flash fry cubed onion and capsicum, this is just a quick deep fry
2. Heat pan, add oil and heat
3. Add pinch chili powder, pinch methi, pinch black pepper powder
4. Add the flash fried onion and capsicum, quick stir till nice capsicum aroma emerges
5. Add pre-cooked chicken with a little of the cooking liquid
6. Add 1.5 - 2.0 chef spoon butter gravy
7. Add little hot water if required to get consistency, should be quite thick
8. Add 1 chef spoon cream, mix through, simmer couple of mins at most
9. Remove, package, garnish with fresh chopped coriander

The Butter Gravy is nothing more then the BIR gravy base (no veg except onion in it though), except that it has ground cashews added to it, they are soaked in hot water then pureed into a smooth paste and the spicing is different too with cumin being the biggest ingredient. There is sugar in the Butter Gravy hence no need to put it in the final dish at the restaurant, same too with some tomato ketchup. We do add additional tomato ketchup when making a butter chicken though.

Cheers,
Mark

Hi ifindforu,

Thanks for your insight there, greatly appreciated. Would you be able to attempt to explain to us the word and the  method that you mention that has not been described in the forum, and what you witnessed when they were finishing off the guravy to get the guravy taste.

It certainly would be great for us to learn more and hopefully put an end to us all trying different things that aren't really going to get us any closer to the taste we are all striving to recreate.

Many thanks,
Mark

Hi Panpot,

Yes, great to see your posts again. After my lessons here in Brisbane I too have been amazed at how great it is to get to where you want to and be able to create the dishes at home.

I've recently been reading through the Ashoka posts that you did and that is my next endeaver as they are very similar to the what I have learnt here, but with some subtle differences that I'm looking forward to experiencing. I'll be doing the Rogan Josh gravy as well as it is very similar to the 'Butter/Tomato Gravy' that I have learnt and key to the Rogan Josh and Butter Chicken dishes.

I'd be greatly interested in any of the other recipes that you post, especially veg dishes and any that make use of the Rogan gravy as well.

Cheers,
Mark

Hi CT,

Loving all your posts and vids. My family are all keen on the creamy/mild curries, the kids are all 8 or below, the love of chilies hasn't kicked in for them as yet.

Would be great to try the Pasanda and Malai dishes for something different for them rather then the same old Korma all the time.

Do they end up being much different in flavor to the Korma?

Cheers,
Mark