Ok here's a thing. Ever since I came here I wondered what the heck is that fruity smell? It's just about in everything here. I haven't asked about it because I feel its what I am looking for in particular. It's not a lemon sherbet or anything, it's just there.

Today I pulled out a small thing of onion Tiny condiment thing from the fridge. Small pieces of onion in a red sauce, not much but its there. The thing is that its very sweet. I saw a recipe for this just now but its not that. It tastes like berries although It could be a simple sauce of course.

For me anyway.
1. There is a spice missing. something I have too because I know it but cannot nail it.
2. There is something fruity in my meals. (Sometimes if not then toned down).
3. The oil is the corker. I think that's how it gets around of course (taste).

Guess we all know #3. But I'm sure its reused oil and I'm certain we can make it at home too without reusing it from other dishes.

As a test I added 1 TBS Hot sauce (Forget the brand) into some plain tomato sauce, (tinned). The effect was immediate.

I'm not suggesting everyone go hunt the fridge for Red grape juice or pour Hot sauce over their meals but I am certain that something about both processes do actually occur in some form in many kitchens but perhaps not all.

I've often said I could drink some curry sauces. I'm still frustrated as heck but I'm glad someone is talking about this age old topic again because for my money and although some sites charge access fees for what they say are real recipes from Chefs. None of them come even close to the real thing, none of them.

I know, I'm fussy and try mine alongside those from a restaurant. I think it would be fair to say that some meals. The ones I really like are about 75/80% there, but no more.

 

Quote from: JerryM on October 25, 2009, 04:36 PM
Mikka,

i think i'm on similar lines. "JUST" tomato paste is what's intriguing me. i make 976bar's kashmiri regular. my wife and myself have no direct BIR comparison on this dish - we both feel it's BIR. the same goes for bitchinsahsa's butter chicken. i've never tried a BIR version but i make it for a friend who has BIR comparison and reckons it's as good as. other dishes i make are good enough.

on some dishes there is still a piece of the jigsaw missing. madras is one good example for sure. i regularly do a side by side with the same from my local TA. despite trying all sorts of ideas there is still something missing in terms of ingredient. it's not what i'd call an Indian spice ie cumin, coriander etc. it's not tomato ie ie passata, tin toms, lemon juice, fresh green chilli etc.

i now think it must be something to do with the tomato paste. it's not pataks either. the paprika surprisingly seemed a step in the right direction. i need to get rid of the sand to get a better view.

Thanks for the replies folks, all very helpful.
Ok this is how I see it and remember I'm going through a tough spell as regards this so all can be ignored.  ;D

I can make a sauce taste like Cumin. I can make a sauce taste like cumin with cloves, like Garlic, Ginger, Methi and so on etc.

What I cannot do is match the restaurant at all. I come pretty darned close to one place with my Vindy but they are preparing it in a more home-style way. The others? Not on your nelly, I'm a million miles away from achieving this and they are all similar.

In my case there is a spice/combination of spice seriously missing in all dishes. Its not that they haven't cooked through its that its just not there.

[Santa on your Pepper additions) You know I love pepper and have wondered about this for some time. Thanks for that.

In essence this is about my spice mix. It's nowhere near what I'm being served and I've tried about 20 different variations too. My thinking is that they are adding a spice not usually added to meat dishes or they do something to the spice prior to grinding?

On the Tomato paste thing.... I've asked several people if they ever tasted the (RED) tomato paste which we are told is JUST tomato paste. I have different info from an owner here who confirmed it is not just tomato paste.

Ajwain seems to knock at me head a lot these days for example. Horrible in Butter chicken, delicious with Lamb though its supposed to be for veggie dishes right?

I guess I'm clutching at straws at the moment but I do think a damned good natter with people about this might get my cooking juices going again, I just love cooking but I like it simple and to know what I'm doing rather than testing.

Thanks again folks. Good thread. 

Hey Ray.
Perhaps you are right, I really don't know any more myself. I know oil plays a large part but there are so many videos on line showing people using less which doesn't pan at all with me.

I usually go with plain instinct, never measure and the results are pretty darned good. But not against the real thing it's so frustrating. My final thing is spice blends. Spice doesn't cost that much where I am so instead of serving myself half meals I want something concrete at last.

Something in my head tells me you are right though. After all it cannot be any coincidence that using the same recipe again and again varies so much. After all there are not that many variables. Spice in a 360 degree deep fat fryer doesn't burn for example in Bahjis.

I'll post another on this tomorrow. There are some things that I know do work and the results are 100%.

Good post Ray, Thank you.

Quote from: Razor on October 24, 2009, 10:03 PM
Hi Guys,

I think the trick is a good quantity of oil in the pan.  Fry off your garlic/ginger/tomato pastes (if using all three, or any combo really!)  Once the paste is golden (only visible if not using tomato) I would suggest about 1 minute on full heat, take the pan off the heat and add the spice blend, including extra chilli or paprika if you using it.  Keep stirring vigorously with the back off the chef's spoon.  The oil should like fizz up.  Once it has stopped fizzing, put back over the heat and procede with the rest of the dish. 

This method has never failed me yet

Ray

Glad you posted this Jerry. I had the same problem for ages following some recipes I found. After you've added a TBS of spice then added base which is like thin soup after all I was having this problem too.

These days I add less but as I've said elsewhere its almost like defeating the purpose isn't it? I'm pretty sure they use water in curries here as well as base. In fact you'd be hard pressed to notice there is any powder in some dishes apart from the odd piece that was not ground properly, or perhaps on purpose?

I'm losing it a bit with all this to be honest. (My cooking). The spice oil does make a difference, so too the tom paste mix, even hot sauce makes a huge difference, as does tomato ketchup if used correctly. But it just doesn't come anywhere near what they do. I guess I'm going through a bad time with cooking but I find it soooooo annoying.

I've tried just about every conceivable combo and sometimes created a great dish. But......... if it were placed side by side? No contest, they win hands down. 

I looked at the Shaan spice mix packets again yesterday and opened a few up, looked at the instructions and gave them all a darned good smell. What strikes me is how little there is and how pungent they are yet the contents state nothing unusual.

I think everything is there but the main ingredient in my case. Spice. What do they do with it? Ground Cumin seeds mixed with ground coriander seeds for example don't smell that appealing. Certainly looking at these packets which serve up a good meal in most cases don't smell like that at all. So what the heck is it?

One recipe I followed stated about 3 TBS of spice. Once the base went in I imagine this ended up just like what you are talking about perhaps? Almost like a sand curry? Horrible and a million miles from the take out. :

Oh well...

Thanks again Jerry.
Well summing this up. If it was a car on Top Gear going around a track it would have come about halfway up the leader board. Not good enough frankly. I think I swamped the spice with too much base sauce? Had I left it when that aroma hit I think I would have had a very good dish. :

I used to cook with a lot more spice and ended up with something rather mushy and gritty which is why I changed base and tried a few different things too. Tatties and Chicken are delicious and although it was still enjoyable, even moreish to some extent I'd say I failed.

Ah well time to spin the wheel again and perhaps add larger portions of spice since there was less in the base.

Picture looks great. Will see where I can upload it to.
Thanks again.

You might be better pulling the stalks and drying it in an oven. I agree with Jerry it's fine for base use but for anything else the actual taste will be reduced.

I used Bruce's base but added a WHOLE green pepper. I love the way it smells and adds something to the sauce. I used my new Tomato paste which is basically fried onions with spices. I also added 1/2 tsp Asoftida right at the start and used some 5 green chillies along with 1 tbs onions, also dried ginger.

I used also CA's spice oil (With missing ingredients).

House stinks but what a taste!
Am wondering if I should reclaim that oil that you see here but.

Heck I'm letting it sit for a while now. That dish is what I get my food in. There are stabs in the top of the lid when they let you have it but I'll get to that another time.
This is rather like a Jalfrezi and I should really have added the peppers. Also uses cooked tikka chicken since it was left over from another night.

I guess you could all it a Jalfrezi then?  :


Found I couldn't upload an image, sorry.

Oddly and I forgot this yesterday. Over here they have Chilli powder and HOT Chilli powder. Someone told me the HOT stuff was Cayenne pepper. Burns yah ruddy mouth off truly. :-X

To be completely honest I've only had a problem with two bases Jerry. One was because I didn't cook the onions enough. The other was mine which had way too much going on in it, although I did get some fab meals from it for a while.

Neither is strong so I'm hoping the right choices at the pan will make a huge difference this time around.

Thanks Jerry.

Quote from: JerryM on October 19, 2009, 07:09 AM
will be interesting how u get on with Bruce's base & CA's oil.
the other pieces i swear by are heat of the burner, whole spice in the base and cooking the spices in free water when "frying" the dish.

:
Please don't nail me for this. It is what I've been doing for more than a year now. It works and provides 100% results. i.e. No chewy, dried up chicken that tastes of absolutely nothing.

Again. If anyone sees this 'At another place'. I'd be very interested to know about it. Thank you.

Basically. Chicken does not have a lot going for it.. There is no blood to speak of in its breast or body unlike Beef/Pork/Lamb. You cannot infuse it easily either despite what some say but over a period of time in marination, yes it will. Here is what I do.

Chicken (Any Quantity) Please do not mix dark meat/white meat.

1. Place chicken (WITHOUT SKIN) on a board.
2. Chop to required sizes. (I like to keep these about 2 inches in length).
3. Grind Pepper, a little salt (Not much)
4. Any spices of your choice depending on dish.

Leave to stand and soak.

5. Mix PLAIN yogurt (Enough to coat all pieces) And mix thoroughly.

Marinate for 24 hours in Fridge....

The next day.
6. Heat oven to 325. (You can go higher if you wish?)
7. Place Chicken pieces on parchment paper and place in oven or what we call broiler.
8. YOU HAVE TO WATCH your chicken.

(We are only cooking it through).
Please remember to turn them.

What you should have is hot chicken with residue of fats and milk products spilling. This is fine and looks sort of messy but the end product is well worth it. Pick it up with tongues.

Throw away any residue + plus parchment paper.

Store in an air tight container. DO NOT FREEZE unless the chicken has been immersed in sauces.

I do this for any chicken dish. I will try the soaked onion method too but this really does work and provides very moist chicken.