QuoteHow can it be called roasting or singeing with so much water present?

roasting should have maybe have had quotation marks  , read it somwhere & Julian C2G, said the method of caramelising the gravy in the pan  is 'known as roasting' rather than simply using the term himself.

Anyhow, I'm not 100% convinced yet the tomato paste is a crucial part of this process. When it's added to those hot pans in the videos, it seems to be in a fairly haphazard sort of way and mixed around with the spices. The gravy is added more directly to cool the whole thing down. As mentioned, one of my locals basic curry has no hint of tomato, no hint of red in the colour, as a bhuna may........and yet still has the underlying taste. Of note, the

Ashoka recipe's on here, call for oil/GG/tomato paste/garam masala in the initial stage. If I remember correctly, East End brand was used . Now that is flying in the face of things

Somehing important in the Ashoka stuff I never picked up on until recently, was that the original poster saw this process in action, and got it immediately. Same thing with the Zaal kitchen lessons.


@SD, burning, singeing, they don't sound great at all  ;D, and agreed even on my cooker, the tomato paste loses it's water very quickly (1/4 ratio) The best results I have had so far were to fry the mix powder for while on full heat before adding the tomato. I think a slightly smaller pan than the 26cm we've have, would make this whole melarky a bit easier, although 9 quid for that piece ali was a snip 

ELW

I could blunt my senses in a kitchen all day long, but a side by side comparison will always show a difference between bir@home & bir in itself. Doing a spot the difference between homestyle & bir & I see heat/base gravy/ & initial cooking technique. After that it cooks away like anything else, the bir bit is done! I would like to know this however.
Do Asian cooks/families, use this initial hot cooking technique at home? & if not why not?

Can anyone reproduce the slightly burned taste by longer cooking on lower heat? It would be very reassuring for anyone just setting out, as it's oddly never really been emphasised, either in print or otherwise.

The 'taste' I know now is hot fused spices, the 'aroma' of hot fused spices & tomato paste will be one you are familiar with, if your local actually uses tomato paste across most of its dishes. My local does a basic curry, there is no hint of tomato in it at all, but that burned taste is there. KD, on the face of it was roasting individual spices in gravy rather than tomato, why shouldnt that work, if you got the pan hot enough? She never mentioned anything about heat or any importance of initial cooking either. 

The Kushi recipe's again don't mention heat as being significant, again according to their book, don't use tomato paste
I said it plenty on here recently, that only by introducing heat & ignoring the voice in my head saying "don't burn the spices", have I produced results. Edit-ignore everything I know & am used to doing while cooking food in a frying pan(never had a frying pan on full blast in my life till now) It's still very hit & miss, but the ingredients & recipe's are as they always were, the only new variable is the inital cooking method. I reckon I could take for example CA's stuff onto a big burner & produce great bir dishes, knowing what I know now. At home on my gas cooker is a little trickier, but I have managed it...you'll just need to trust me on that

Zaal base tastes great on it's own, tried the no tomato approach last night, didn't hit the mark, not sure why yet. Hope to have something a bit more concrete regarding a slower/lower initial cooking method thisn week. It would be great to either count it in or rule it out once and for all

Regards
ELW

Quote from: chewytikka on March 02, 2012, 06:03 PM
Hi Colin
Welcome to the forum

(radioactive vivid blue colour) No No No, sounds like old ginger to me.
Just bin it, you know it's wrong.

I do G&G = 50/50, veg oil, salt and sometimes water to thin and make it white.
Never found any reason to do any other ratio.

Use the freshest G&G you can get, or use Taj frozen blocks (ASDA,Very Good)
cheers Chewy

I bought the Taj frozen blocks from Asda (97p per 400 grm bag)yesterday (G&G separate), after reading this post. The difference in taste from fresh, when thawed, is neither here nor there imo. It's also much smoother than my blender could ever produce.

The jarred preserative laden Sapna, with it's 1/2 inch long fibres,is history now. It also makes blending the two to your required ratio an absolute doddle, with the neat little blocks in comes in.
I'm never in the freezer section of Asda, so would never had found this on my own.

Anyone finding g&g puree production/storage a slight pain in the a*** at times should try this if they're not already on it!
Great recommendation

ELW

Quote from: Salvador Dhali on March 03, 2012, 03:02 PM
ELW: It's still an unknown for me about ghee. I remember reading that it takes longer to break down, ie smoke, which is when carcinogens are released. Or was it traditional or cheap. Might get some today actually ....mmmmmm ghee

Do you mean vegetable or butter ghee, ELW? I mention it because it's a well known fact that vegetable ghee will kill you almost instantly, whereas butter ghee will do so more slowly, and with a better flavour. 

Seriously though, it's true that there's no shortage of horror stories surrounding the oils and fats we use to cook or food, but I try not to worry about it too much.

Having made it to the age of 54 in surprisingly good (some may say rude) health despite existing on an almost exclusively curry based diet I reckon I'm either extremely lucky, or the human body is remarkably good at dealing with the crap we throw at it.

It may get me in the end (something has to), but I'm not ready to order the yurt and embrace fruitarianism just yet...

Both Ghee's I think SD can be heated to a much higher degree. Agreed , there's a time & a place for chats about diet, normally in my gp's office where I can be found waxing lyrical about soluble fibre & cranberry juice. Personally I like to avoid those little tete a tetes. Green meat will kill you doctor, not red

ELW

Edit - as for Pat Chapman, I don't have any of her books & Khris Dhillon, don't get me started on him

QuoteI've just had a taste, and even though I say so myself it's bloody gorgeous. I could cheerfully eat a bowl of it on its own as a soup.

It tastes great on it's own, I was thinking  Mothers Pride outsiders would go down well with this little batch & make some curries other day.  I can't walk past the pot without havin a final taste check & nod of the head!

ELW

Quote from: Salvador Dhali on March 03, 2012, 02:17 PM
Just found this thread, which inspired me to hook out all my PC books. (I thought I had them all, but haven't got North Indian Curries, Unclefrank. Any good?)

I'm not sure why there should be any hostility towards the man. While it's true that his books didn't help me to attain the holy grail of BIR, I found them interesting and full of information about my favourite food.

Flicking through 'Bangladeshi Restaurant Curries', I was intrigued to read, under the section entitled 'Bangladeshi Curry Processes', that the most important process is the bhoona (or bhuna), in which the essential or volatile oils from whole or ground spices are released by frying in ghee or oil. Okay, nothing new there, but he goes on to explain that "an initial high temperature is required".

Could this be an early reference to 'singeing'?

He goes on to say that for this process ghee is better than oil. "This is because ghee, being very clarified, reaches a higher temperature before it burns and therefore allows the spices to be taken to a higher temperature before they burn."

I must admit I tend to use oil most of the time, but shall be getting the ghee out for a bit of singeing when I make tonight's vindaloo to test the theory out...

It's still an unknown for me about ghee. I remember reading that it takes longer to break down, ie smoke, which is when carcinogens are released. Or was it traditional or cheap. Might get some today actually ....mmmmmm ghee

Just made a 5 ltr version minus the ghee as i had none. gave the spices the treatment before adding the blended tomatoes. Similar to Kushi base method, but I prefer this due to the higher GG. 3rd time using the same batch of whole spices, (new bay as I have plenty), with little or no loss in flavour. House smells great for a change  ;D

ELW

Quote from: mr.mojorisin on March 01, 2012, 05:42 PM
i used to get whole ribeye off the back of a lorry bound for Sainsburys every couple of weeks
can't remember the exact weight but it was big enough to get approx 20 No inch and a half thick steaks from it
all that for a measly ?20
my freezer was always full of steaks...so full in fact, i used to give em free to my neighbours

I'd have slow cooked what i could fit in the oven as it was. It's the best roasting joint there is imho

ELW

Quote from: curryhell on March 01, 2012, 07:14 PM

Quote from: ELW on March 01, 2012, 07:04 PM
Anyone catch what went in 1st from the spice deck, after the onions/chicken were done?

I believe that was methi leaves followed by what looked like a couple of tsp of mix powder ( "bit more for bhuna" said Az) followed up by a dab 1/2 tsp of chilli powder.  Salt had already gone in earlier.  Just garlic went in at the start

Thats interesting, I'm really starting to realise the nuances,meaning the ingredients you can't see, in bir now. My local bhuna def has extra g&g, it's even advertised on the menu as such.
Kushi has no tomato paste/puree in their dishes

Does anyone add tomato paste to a basic curry recipe?

ELW

Quote from: Stephen Lindsay on March 01, 2012, 07:09 PM
I think you might need a big 45 litre home brew bucket to pickle that lot 

Homebrew..those unpredictable alcohol levels made for some great parties SL