I've tried to avoid all ghee in my home efforts, I'll maybe pick some up at the weekend. The trouble with medium heat(full blast on my gas cooker) is that I'm finding the spice needs to be spread out better over the pan & although I'm unsure yet whether the spices are 'singed' on the heat/hot pan or in the hot oil, Any clumps or spice rolling up & sticking together or high spots are not getting the treatment resulting in my inconsistencies. The commercial burner seems to take care of this, I can see that from the videos

I've did Zaal base, 50/50GG, 1/4 Salkim Tomato paste, methi leaves & NATCO GARAM MASALA,recipe as per Ashoka,(no spice mix, I think Ashoka use the Banjarra paste in mainly in place of a mp), with surprisingly good results, just to throw a spanner in

There is a post somewhere, whether it's on here or elsewhere, where the site admin arranged for his local bir chef to come & cook at his home, on his equipment(electric 2 hob plug in if I remember correctly). anyone recall this?Chef said no problem, but after a couple of attempts, said he couldn't get the pan hot enough 

Regards
ELW

Gas,
would like a wok burner & smaller ali pan combination

Quote from: CardiffCurrylad on March 06, 2012, 11:53 AM

Quote from: ELW on March 06, 2012, 10:26 AM

Quote"The sequence in which the spices are put into the pot is important...

...they may be fried or added to the boiling mixture. This is like the high or low tone of the note. Frying releases the flavour of the spice more strongly than plain cooking"

Thanks Gary, that's a good Little snippet. I'm trying to whittle this whole thing down  to find only what's crucial. I've no idea why longer frying on a lower heat isn't getting me the results of the full blast method, I thought they would eventually get to the same stage, but I've not managed that yet. It would be great for forum members on if it was possible, it would certainly take the mess & panic out of it.
I'd like to hear if an Asian chef, or just an Asian homecook, would turn the pan up full when cooking at home. I can hardly think of anything I've ever cooked up full blast in a frying pan apart from this

ELW

Hi ELW, I have cooked along side a Indian cookery tutor (although be it traditional home cooking) and the g&g paste and onions were cooked on a medium heat to avoid it from burning with the spices added once the garlic lost it's raw smell. I know this is not bir but maybe it could answer a few questions that may be in the back of some members minds, who knows 

Thanks for the reply CCL, I would ask the tutor why the spices are  not taken further to bir level as we know it. Is it not the done thing for home cooking or is the bir level of cooking just a consequence of having a large commercial burner? A taste For Western palates? I don't know, but I'd like to get it down to only the required elements, just for consistency.

@Gary - After watching one of the Zaal videos(can't remember which), I've been adding  spice/methi/salt to the cooked GG & oil, off the heat & letting it all become an thin oily mixture(not a paste), which can be tipped from side to side in the pan, then back on - quenching with gravy only (no tom paste at all)at the moment, to produce a decent bir tasting basic curry.

@ George - I've never added garlic at the end, but have upped the quantity a bit at the beginning, it does add to the bir taste, so does upping the salt I've found, which i was actually trying to reduce

Quote"The sequence in which the spices are put into the pot is important...

...they may be fried or added to the boiling mixture. This is like the high or low tone of the note. Frying releases the flavour of the spice more strongly than plain cooking"

Thanks Gary, thats a good litle snippet. I'm trying to whittle this whole thing down  to find only what's crucial. I've no idea why longer frying on a lower heat isn't getting me the results of the full blast method, I thought they would eventually get to the same stage, but I've not managed that yet. It would be great for forum members  if it was possible, it would certainly take the mess & panic out of it.
I'd like to hear if an Asian chef, or just an Asian homecook, would turn the pan up full when cooking at home. I can hardly think of anything I've ever cooked up full blast in a frying pan apart from this

ELW

Quote"we eat anything that moves, and most things that don't",

& "the only thing with 4 legs we don't eat is the table" was another I was quoted.
Couldn't agree more with your post here Phil(Cha006), It's a way of life I'm not comfortable with at all. Seeing the 'humane treatment' of cattle  in the Abbatoir in Glasgow was bad enough, but like most I will have lost the association by the time it gets to my plate. Some of the Chinese t'a's have a reputation of buying from poachers & there will be recurring warnings here about the trade of puppies brought from farms in Ireland in car boots, often suffering from illlness. I don't remember the horse meat trade, but I'd say it was seen as as common sense


Regards
ELW

QuoteAz told me that a slow cooked curry will always taste better than one cooked fast. So it seems it's not the level of heat but the amount of cooking which counts. Ie, low & slow cooking is as valid as hard & fast.

Does anyone know if Asian chefs/homecooks, use the same method of cooking when at home?
I've tried 2 x slow fry of the spices today, on low heat 12-15mins frying... the results being very poor. When the gravy hit the pan(no tomato paste used), it it sounded like a batch of wet chips hitting the deep fat fryer, very loud 
I'll try another couple of slow fry's then I'm going to abandon this method. It's far too early for me to rule it out completely & I'd love to find it can be done this way

Ignoring the pre cooked meats & pastes for a second, a homestyle curry is really only missing the base gravy, frequently replaced by tomatoes & water & a commercial cooking appliance . If the method / process of frying spices is commonplace/second nature, as old as the hills as has been suggested, then where does the fused spice taste disappear to in the homestyle version  I've had homestyle in a Pakistani home ,cooking all day, meat on the bone, falling apart, great yes, bir no

@Gary - thats pretty much the way I've been going. I rarely add meat to a dish if it doesn't taste right after the gravy is cooked out, therefore can get through quite a bit of base gravy.

When I'm down to my last gravy portion, and it doesn't hit the mark, I'll dilute it a little with water & repeat the whole process again. I've got some great results by doing this, but as Roy Walker from Catchphrase used to say "it's good, but it's not right"

Just a thought...looking now at the ready meal supermarket versions, the makers of which should be set up more than anyone to do bir, this little process looks more like one of the reasons they can't produce bir ready meals on a grand scale 

ELW

QuoteCan a mod remove the original post as its already been covered ta.

I doubt it very much t-c  ;D


ELW

Has anyone found a new level of success in bir@home by adopting the cooking techniques highlighted by the Zaal kitchen report & videos?

Some of the results I've had since I stopped hitting the spices with my handbag & cooked them with a bit of venom, are not vague in any way, they are definite & quite stark in contrast to the result of 'not cooking on full blast'. Not a 'tasty' curry, but a 'bir curry'. It's like night & day.

Whether the spices are slightly burned or simply cooked properly I'm not sure.I need to be far more consistent with my efforts on the home cooker, which upon reflection, is the only thing the bir kitchen doesn't have!

Results & ingredients up to the gravy stage would be great

I'd be also be very interested in hearing from anyone with results by adopting the low heat Sunday fry up method, which seems ingrained in the home cook when using a frying pan or those not using tomato paste
Thanks in advance

ELW

Quote from: Whandsy on March 04, 2012, 06:22 PM

Quote from: curryhell on March 04, 2012, 06:07 PM
Congratulations mate.  Any chance of posting the recipe W and a pic maybe

Hi CH, no pics unfortunately as it looked pretty much like the others i make other than the taste was better.

Regarding recipe, chefspoon veg oil, i had some premade Zaal base (apart from indian bay, haven't tracked any down yet ), mixed powder was premade that i have from a takeaway, however i periodically make small amounts of others on here and they all seem to give similar results (imo). Watered down tom puree with a touch of tandoori masala in it, methi, deggi mirch, salt, precooked onion, homemade g/g blended with water and oil, coriander, precooked chicken tikka, finger chillis and half a tomato. Sprinkled with a pinch of jalpur GM a la curry2go at the end

Happy days 

W

Nice one Whandsy, good to see someone getting tangible results from their efforts.

ELW

Quote from: curryhell on March 04, 2012, 01:21 PM
It certainly works well and tastes great, but there are many others on here that are equally as good, just like the one in your freezer.  The base is only part of the jigsaw IMHO.  As long as it's half decent, right consistency, right taste (don't ask me to define that one  ) it's then down to what you do with it.  That's what really counts ;D.  Obviously, variations in ingredients will affect the final result, sometimes considerably, sometimes with little impact.  IMO, no matter good the base, it won't provide you with a BIR curry with that smell and taste if the final dish isn't cooked right.  You'll end up with just another home made curry.

Thats for sure Curryhell, the bir bit is over & done with very quickly, the rest as a dish will come down to palate really. I singed the spices at the bagar stage also doing the Zaal base, but noticed no difference in the base, probably due to the large amount of liquid. I don't know if the oil content of the base gravies has been dealt with, but I used 75ml (5Tblsp)as called for  in the Kushi base, with no adverse side effects!
Someone mentioned recently about passing on the bir info they have aquired. Being able to control the salt/fat/sugar levels as far as possible in great bir@home would be a good way go imho