Smokenspices,

very interesting

QuoteResults were a thicker gravy. Tasted sweeter and creamy

i'm also not interested in the oil etc.

i guess the red pepper gave the sweetness and your thoughts will be interesting once you've had chance to cook with it - is it nearer to BIR sweetness as a result.

on the pots i presume your saying keep them in and either std or salad are both ok with no real diff in taste

Quotehe who laughs last might laugh loudest in this case

you've got me in stitches now.

i suppose i try to be too healthy some times for example i don't put extra salt into any of my cooking except indian and making bread. i also reserve sprinkling of salt to chips only. what i am saying is my taste buds go into alarm as soon as they so much as smell a bit of salt. so masking the taste is clearly well ott for me.

there are some instances when you need salt ie making bread. getting the bitterness out of onions is another must use for me.

i'm with bobby on this one and sit perched up high. never had a bitter sauce.

my experiences as follows to help a little:

1) salt is key - don't need a lot mind you 1 to 2 tsp ish (masking the taste has me lol and lol and lol)
2) cooking time/intensity is crucial - smell and taste the base all the way through cooking - i seriously worry about there being none left sometimes. don't stop cooking the onions until that raw smell & taste has gone
3) size does matter - cut into 1/4'rs only (otherwise cut them smaller cook em longer)
4) pan surface area seems to make a difference on cooking time - squat wide pan best
5) need to give them a few stirs during cooking
6 add plenty of olive oil (sorry could not resist the joke)

Rai,

did you see the link about frying - it is pretty good.

what i think i'm saying is that the spices do get hotter than 100c. i don't know how much hotter and i believe that's what u, me and all are wanting to find out as it answers the question on whether a burner will give the smokey taste. the post suggests it will.

why i say this is that i get better results the higher i turn my hob up (i started using setting 3 then to 4 and now at 5 and aiming for 6). also when i'm frying the spices steam is coming off all the time (the water that i've previously added to make the spice mix paste). the limitation only seems to be on my cooking ability to avoid burning the spices. so for me time as well as temp is key.

what i'm searching for is that the BIR/TA cook does not rely on a thermometer or a timer ie uses experience so he must be looking for something to say "spices cooked".

what does the spice mix look like at this point - for me currently when i see craters - but is this right eg i may be cooking the spice too much. i know if i cook too much further beyond this point the spices burn

We need help and let?s hope the post delivers it.

Davy,

interesting theory. i'm afraid i'm not convinced.

pondering a bit more would do no harm though. the focus would need to be on us though not the "Indian" people (meaning Indian loosely, the cooks at my fav TA originating from Bangladesh) as the reason why we have BIR today is that the native dishes were adjusted to suit the brit pallet.

the sweetness is an interesting part as just adding sugar does not move towards the BIR taste - it's too sickly. at moment i've adapted the spice mix i us to add sugar the idea being that the sugar caramelises during the frying process. this has moved my cooking on i feel in the right sweetness direction but as you say we need everyone?s' input to get closer.

The smokeyness I?m convinced comes from the hot burners used and I see the Worcester sauce trick as a stop gap measure (I am looking at burners at present)

Rai,

very good topic.

i also think the frying time "appearance" of the spices to be related and would appreciate any thoughts

i'm thinking of frying time not in minutes or secs as this i think depends on the power of the cooker and the amount of water in the paste - i'm specifically thinking on the lines of what to look for.

currently i fry the watered down spice paste until the water has almost gone ie the runny liquid paste has returned more to a sort of stodgy paste and the bubbles create craters as opposed to escaping without changing the surface as is the case when the paste has just been added. i do this as i find it difficult to decide when the toffee/choking smell is at it's best.

for info i've used the following as the basis for the frying technique

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1851.0.html

Rai,

i must admit i've wrestled with this "depth of spice" issue for a long time.

the traditional Indian spice is just not for me (cloves, turmeric, curry leaves and even cumin to an extent) - i hate the taste of pat chapman for example. it's got to be BIR as that's what i've been brought up on.

i had tried various spice combinations trying to gain "depth of spice" but without anyone spice overpowering the rest thinking this would get me closer to BIR taste. i also looked into increasing the spice in the base.

after a long period of making 1 off changes and comparing against a control and then comparing against a real BIR i've come to the conclusion that BIR is not heavily spiced at all.

by using a good base (i include rajver, ifindforu and saffron), using the "toffee" cooking technique and the LB spice mix /rajah curry powder in a 50/50 mix i feel i've got pretty close to the taste i'm after. when compared to the real BIR it was lacking sweetness and by adapting the LB to the LB+ i feel this has been sorted without getting a sickly taste. i believe the only thing missing now is the sort of smokey bbq flavour which i feel i'm going to need a proper wok burner to sort.

Rai,

thanks, i've emailed seller to find spec.

Davy,

nice post. very much conclude on the rice problems and i'll add to the rice post my experiences.

the secrete ingredient i often use is a splash of worcester sauce. it' seems to add a sweet smokey flavour and gets the dish closer to BIR/TA taste.

Chris,

been thinking more about my bbq burner and read the various posts searching on burner. found the posts very interesting particularly the blue flame. my bbq burner is aimed at heating up a large area ie the grill and is not really blue like my torch for plumbing.

i don't think now the test equipment was good enough and i'm on look out for a burner at a decent price.

given what you say about your cast iron baltis and the quality of the base & recipe i've got through CRO then i feel it ie hot burner can be the only missing ingredient.