Dont give up on Cornwall, several times I've taken the familly to Cornwall and there is a superb indian called the Taj Mahal (unoriginal I know) in Penzance that does fantastic BIR food, always packed and the take-aways are so good.

Just to add my parents live near a heavily populated indian comminity in Ilford, and there are some very good indian food shops, one of which makes up a real proper batch of lamb biryani, none of the veg curry rubbish, but some lovely rice cooked with lamb and spices, so much nicer than the BIR copy.

No, he's called Andy Varma and he runs a resteraunt called Vramas on the kings road chelsea.

He also does curry cooking lessons on Saturday afternoons, I went for one once.

It was very basic he showed us around the kitched and we watched the chefs cook several dishes, I think they were Salmon Tikka, veg pullo rice and a some other curry.

The food is more contemporary indian, but very nice, we had hot naan from the tandoor and also a bread that was made paper thin like a gaint tissue.

We could then eat as much of these dishes as we wanted, he kept the food comming till we were all stuffed.

Check it out, he still runs the courses, I didn't learn much although I still have the recipe cards somewhere.

http://www.londoneats.com/news/default.asp?PressID=6

There is no seperate base, curry, madras, vindaloo same curry same base just add chilli powder to change.

I know some people will disagree, but every curry house differs, but the cheap places do this and so do the better ones, but the better ones may add some potato for a vindaloo and so on.

The reusing of oil is very much a no no. Cross contamination would be a major problem, agreed oil is not a good medium for bacteria but and a very big but the health and saftey people inspect very frequently all food establishments.

Some of you may remember a program on TV that followed the health inspectors as they did their job around take-away places in the uk, one place was an indian resteraunt and they shut it down, what they were doing was taking left over food from the resteraunt and salvaging the chicken and meat, washing it under a tap then putting it in the take-away orders.

Makes you think.

"Say I'm I'm a curry house manager and I get a phone call asking whether there is chicken stock in the veggie curries. Now what would I say, given that my livelihood and that of the 70,000 other employees in this trade, depends on the continued sale of curries. I'm going to lie through my teeth aren't I."

Sorry but I disagree with this statement, 70,000 plus people are now liars and law breakers. I don't believe that every chef/owner/worker in indian establishments are pulling the wool over our eyes and telling us lies. There are alot of very nice and decent people running these places and they have no reason to do this. I find this sort of genealisation very narrow minded.

He admitted that some places may do this, but most would not, including his.

There is no way on this earth that all these people are hiding what amounts to a bigger secret than hanger 18.

Q sun headline "CURRY CON", "CONDALLOO"

I agree with the guy that said it's in the smell, the smell that you smell when walking past a take-away BEFORE it's opened for business is the cooking of the base sauce and THAT is the key to it all, it's a very pungent and instantly recognisable smell that everyone knows there must be a curry house near!

Smell the coffee (curry) and get real.

Pete,

I fully agree with you. But maybe we are looking too hard at this, thanks to you and the others on this site, I can now cook a curry that as far as my friends tell me is as good and if not better than some take-aways.

I have had indian meals that have been good, some places have been ok, and some very mediocre. Some weeks even my fav place turns out a crap curry.

On Saturday uk food (sat channel) showed the one hour special narrated by neil morrisey about uk's love of indian food, in it was an indian chef in an indian restaraunt standing at the cooker, infront of him was one big pot of sauce and a wok.

He took a big ladle of sauce, and by god it looked just like pete's 600mil oil curry sauce, although more oily and started cooking it, no massive heat or flames.

And some chefs on it even admitted the use of one base sauce to cook all dishes (no surprises there).

But I do agree with you Pete and Ghanna and the others (alright Darth) that there maybe something we are missing, but I don't think we can do it in our own homes, and I really believe that what the owners of these places are telling us is true, there is no special stuff, no magic, no secret, but just skill, and lots of experience.

I can put on my CV 15 years experience of working in IT ( and thats 8 hours plus a day five days a week). Now tell me you can say that you have 15 years experience cooking curries six days a week 8 hours a day.

Tell you what, lets all meet up for a top class curry somewhere have a few beers and kidnap the chef, cue music "stuck in the middle with you, jokers to left of me clowns to the right, here I'am".

Keep it up we may crack it yet.

Okay this chicken stock thing has got me very upset. My best friend is a very commited vegetarian, and he loves his curry. So when I mentioned this to him he was very worried.

So he called up his local take-away which he uses every week and asked to speak to the manager, he explained that he had heard that they may be using chicken stock in thier vegetable dishes (by the way all the vegetable dishes are listed under vegetarian dishes).

The manager told him they would never use chicken stock or any meat product in the preperation or finishing of any dish listed as vegetarian (he also pointed out his family were all vegetarian and understood his concern). He then asked why he would ask such a question, so my friend told him about what I had said an mentioned this site, oh dear, the guy was very upset and said that alot of misinformation could be spread over this internet thing, he also told him that the take-away business is a very competitive and cut throat market and would not be surprised if some places did such things.

However he also pointed out that to buy and cook then extract the meat from whole chickens would be very time consuming, they only buy wholesale frozen chicken breast, which takes no time to prep.

He mentioned that he had managed several outlets in the country and that all of them worked off a very simple recipe for the base sauce of onion, garlic, ginger and spices, and maybe the odd extra ingredient, but nothing very special.

This has got me thinking and I really believe that the recipies for the base sauce are genuine, what is scaring me is this seems to be turning it too something from the x-files.

Watch out the curry police maybe watching. As for this rubbish about being watched, so what, freedom of speach is a good thing, are we stopping the indian take-aways from comming on and defending themselves, no, we would love it!!!

Hey DarthPhall,

I've been reading your posts, and I think you are a very funny guy (assuming you are a guy).

I did notice you mentioned that you lived in Cornwall, which is where my family often go for a holiday every year.

Where abouts in Cornwall are you? It's just that last time we went we stayed near Penzance and found this superb curry take-away
not far from Newlin.

I think I tried several places in Penzance (not many in Cornwall mind you) and most were not very good but this place was the muts nutz.

Just that we will be going again for 2 weeks in August and staying right in the middle of Penzance so I need to know the best places to get my fix.

I don't believe its all in the base sauce.

I did an a test the other day, one curry cooked with hardly any oil as a starter the second
was cooked with loads of oil as a starter and the second one tasted very different, infact the second one tasted nearly like the real thing.

Too many base sauce recipes and too many are similar give or take the carrot.

Hell, it can't be one simple ingredient, I think alto of people would be happy if that was the answer.

For one ingredient to make that much difference to the taste of a sauce is nigh on impossible, we are not talking about a subtle taste that would be missed by most people, but something that we all agree on with out question is definate.

Everyone on this forum KNOWS that what they cook at home still has something not the same.

Whats different,

A) you cooked it and it's not in a sliver foil container or served on a sizzling platter
B) you've not done it day in and day out for 10 years (well most of us have not)
C) you really don't realise that what you've cooked IS the real deal.

Someone tell me that they have cooked a curry using these recipes for someone else, and told them it was a take-away and they
said "no way man this tastes like you cooked it".

I cooked Pete's one for the wife and she said and I quote "you could sell this and no one would know".

Still, is it worth going to the Bengal Cuisine again, my Dads birthday is comming up soon and he's keen on going, maybe I'll push for using the sauce that he cooks and not the "special" already done sauce.

Blimey Ghanna you've just about covered everything. Based on this there must be a secret.

Right the only way to find the answer is for all of us to club together, put ?50 each in the pot (not alot considering how much money we must have wasted on this pursuit). Bribe a chef to show us everything, from sauce to finish, then we taste it (money
back if it's not right).

Or bribe one of the waiters or a lower paid member of the kitchen, everyone has a price!

I can't stop thinking about this.

Lets look back to when we had no Indian establishments. The first guys arive from Bangladesh, they must have had a hard
time finding the ingredients they needed to make the food they were used to.

I did read a book about a family growing up in England after moving from Indian and the food featured quite a bit, they used to do
things like make baked beans on toast but spice it up with some onions and Garam Masla.

Maybe the reason for the taste is something more common to the west than the east?

Now I'm starting to believe in the secret.

On the other hand after spending all day yesterday cooking a base sauce and making myself a curry the wife walked in last night
and said the house smelt like the local Indian curry house.

Fenugreek leaves do have that sort of smell but I when you walk past a resteraunt in the evening there is a distinct pungent smell in the air, and I think it's this smell that is the key to the flavour.