Jerry not sure if this is of use, but it may help. the chef at my local bir adds very little oil to the base (half a cup) but adds loads of water and makes it very very thin. much thinner than safron. he then adds about 7 - 9 tbs oil at frying stage. i have had great results copying this approach. hope other members do to. interestingly they add the spice mix after they add the base sauce to the pan. i guess with so much oil and heat in the pan, the spices get properly cooked, and there is less risk of burning. it seems to work well for them.

way too much time has been spent on endless base optimizations on this site. i too am guilty of this  ;D. i have tasted the real base at my local bir 3 times now. some weeks when they are low on supplies, it is just a plain veg stock. other weeks it is more elaborate. however they always produce a good curry with even the plainest of bases. they work their magic, and the taste off the underlying base is not really noticable. the texture is still there. i know this as i purchased a madras and a tub of their real base one night. and compared the 2. its odd as they add about a quarter of a chefs spoon of spice mix to each curry. about 2 tbs. shocking amounts ! 

ok barrie, point taken. what exactly do you put the great taste you describe down too? what recipe did you use to go with the base. if indeed you are correct, then other cr0 members need to varify it. this is easier if you specify the page numbers for the recipe, and the base etc etc. i also assume you refer to the latest kd book. i own the original kd book, and i liked the base, but not so keen on the other recipies. too much garam masaala i felt.

hi chilly head. are there any more insights you could share from your time in the greek restaurant kitchen. sounds like a cool experience. cheers dd.

ok george i am sold on the idea. can someone provide the link to the ck madras. shall i use the sns base also.

while i am here  anyone know how to get that smokey burnt flavor.

lol, actually i am too lazy to be a re claimed oil mercahnt ! i dont think its that important, but can be a quick boost to flavor if you have some available. my local bir ta thinks its not useful at all.

very true sns. i have tried 5 or more traditional madras recipies from varied trad indian cookery books. all are nice in there own way. some have cocunut, some dont. some have tamerind, or star anise some dont. i will make your base as it looks good. its so similar to a base i have developed myself that i already know its good and bad points. i only buy ta's from the best bir, else i feel ripped off. so i am probably a bit too critical of my own madras. i am sure  mine is better than most standard bir madras. especially when i have fresh base, and fresh chicken stock etc + reclaimed oil. 

real assistance from real bir chefs is the most logical answer. bouncing ideas off them  might reveal some new leads. there has been no real bir input since ashoka.

there seems to be 3 things missing (30 percent !!). 1) a tangy acidic burnt flavor 2) a turnipy onion soup flavor, 3) toffee flavor. i wonder if 1) is from garlic cooked high heat on proper gas cooker??. i only have electric cooker