Quote from: matty123 on January 19, 2012, 10:15 PM
Would it be ok to use as a substitute until i find them, and at what ratio for a tablespoon of leaves say .   Thanks Matt.

Hi Matt

You can get them from here - http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/ and I think they do ship worldwide but no idea whether it would be financially viable to ship them to Oz. I have no vested interest in that shop apart from that's where I get a lot of my spices from and so far I've been pleased with the product and quality of service.

You can substitute the powder for the leaves, as I did recently when trying CA's Madras recipe (because at the time I was out of leaves) and to be honest, I didn't notice a huge amount of difference from when I cooked the dish with the leaves.

I can't remember exactly how much I upped the powder to compensate for the lack of leaves in the spice mix but I would suggest starting with about a level teaspoon of powder per tablespoon of leaves and adjust it either way on tasting the dish.

You could experiment with what point you introduce it into the dish and see which combination works the best. Adding it to your spice mix, add some to the spice mix and some into the tomato puree and water if you use it and perhaps a small amount sprinkled in 5 or 10 mins before the end of cooking.

It would be best to get the leaves as I think the flavour is better and they're more flexible in how they're used than the powder, but in terms of overall flavour in the dish you can work a solution that comes close with using the powder.

At least that's what I've found in my experience!

Quote from: JerryM on January 18, 2012, 06:50 PM
3) base spice - there must be 2 approaches in the trade - heavy and light. it accounts for the discrepancies in spicing at dish frying ie large and small amounts of mix powder ie tbsps c/w tsps.

This is something I've been pondering for a while now.

I'm going to try an oil-less and spice-less base gravy to test out a few theories I've got with regards to base gravy spicing. I want to remove the spicing from the base and put it back in when 1/ pre-cooking the meat and 2/ cooking the finished dish so I have total control over exactly what and how much spicing goes into the finished dish.

The results could be quite interesting.

Quote from: curryhell on January 18, 2012, 06:58 PM
To say that if I take Chewy's gravy, use CA's spice mix and Abdul's recipe my result is going to unreliable and unpredictable is absolute twaddle.

I understand and appreciate what you're saying here, but I did make it clear in my comments that the opinion I was offering was to new and inexperienced cooks. In that sense, they would be far better off sticking to one persons 'suite' of base gravy, spice mix and recipes, because they'll get consistent and repeatable results.

If other more experienced cooks want to experiment with different base gravy/spice mix/recipe combinations and know from past experience their technique is sound and they know exactly what they're doing then experiment away and enjoy yourselves. I just don't feel that's a good place for new or beginner cooks to this type of cuisine to start from.

Given that this type of thread is likely to be read by new or inexperienced cooks, I stand by that advice as I feel it's sound.

It's difficult to answer such an open ended question - the answer depends on what you want to achieve and how experienced you are in cooking this type of food.

Everyone here will have tried plenty of base sauces and will have their own personal favourites - that's not to say they are the most 'tried and tested' or even the 'best' as everyone's taste buds and level of expectancy is different.

For new or inexperienced cooks to this style of cooking, I'd highly recommend Cory Anders (CA's) suite of base gravy, mix powder and recipes. They're all well thought out, don't use exotic or hard to find ingredients or complex cooking techniques and most importantly the recipes are well written, unambiguous and easy to follow. There's also a good variety of different dishes to cook from the same basic set of ingredients.

I'm a firm believer (and I know there are those here who may not agree with this) that consistent and repeatable results are a direct result of using basic techniques with a recipe designed to work together with it's constituent components. In other words, use the base gravy, mix powder and recipe that are designed to work together and not take one base from one person, match it with a mix powder from another and use a recipe from someone else. The results from doing that will unreliable and unpredictable.

Quote from: chewytikka on January 16, 2012, 04:15 PM
These are the main 4 Garam spices preferred by Bengalis, plenty of other spices are used in there cooking
but these 4 are fundamental and always have been. for Bengalis Anyhoo.

Thank you, very helpful posting.

Just one question on the proportions - is it right to assume the 1:1:1:1 is via weight? Eg 10 grams whole cloves, 10 grams cardamon seeds, roast and grind etc?

Quote from: Phil (Chaa006) on January 16, 2012, 01:28 PMSo what really is unclear ?  We know what it contains (in general, and to a certain extent, specific, terms), we know how it is used.  What remains to be discussed ?

For me personally, (I can't speak for others) specifically how a BIR Chef would use his/her Garam Masala mix. That's really what I would like to know. Are they using it as an ingredient in a generic 'spice mix'? Or as a replacement for the 'spice mix' itself? Or along more conventional lines aka Julian from C2Go, as an addition at the end of cooking?

We know most generic spice mixes will contain as principal ingredients - turmeric, coriander, cumin and paprika and as secondary ingredients - fenugreek powder/dried leaves, garlic powder, ginger powder, tandoori masala powder etc. What's notable is the absence of the primary ingredients in Garam Masala - Peppercorns, Cloves, Cinnamon/Dalchini, Cardamon.

What interests me in trying to understand, is at what point and how, a BIR chef will incorporate the primary flavours from Garam Masala into a typical BIR Curry. I know some of them are used as whole spices in pre-cooking the meat and we also know Julian for example uses a Garam Masala mix at the end of cooking in powder form.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm quite curious about understanding this.

Quote from: Les on January 15, 2012, 09:04 PMTechnically, Garam Masala IS a Spice mix, under any other name, or am i wrong here

Yes it is, but it's a specific type of spice mix. The question is, how and why is it differentiated from other 'Spice Mix's as used within BIR Cookery? And when used in BIR's how and when is it being used?

And I'm talking specifically about Indian Restaurants, not what people do here.

Quote from: Razor on January 15, 2012, 09:48 PM
I'm now beginning to understand Spicey's line of enquiry within this subject.

And yet again we will have to leave the definition of Garam Masala open ended, because no-one can really define what it is or when or how it is used specifically in BIR cooking. Yet people will continue to bandy the term around without fully understanding what it contains or how its used.

Yet new people here are supposed to understand this?

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Quote from: Phil (Chaa006) on January 15, 2012, 07:23 PM
Perhaps, perhaps not

Aha, so not quite as easy and straight forward as first thought then?

Quote from: Phil (Chaa006) on January 15, 2012, 07:23 PM
a masala does not change its name just because of when it is used; a Garam Masala is a Garam Masala

And a Garam Masala differs from a Spice Mix or Mix Powder in what way then?

Quote from: Phil (Chaa006) on January 15, 2012, 06:34 PM

Quote from: spiceyokooko on January 15, 2012, 06:23 PM
How is the Chef's Special Garam Masala actually being used? As a traditional Garam Masala would be

Yes.

So it's being added at the end of cooking then?