I've made base sauce many times now, and for some reason, sometimes they end up being rather bitter, although most of the time not!

Just wonder if anyone has any ideas what causes this?

I do know that it is nothing to do with not frying the garlic and ginger in oil before adding to the rest of the base.  I have ended up with bitter base having initially boiled the garlic'ginger (a la KD), but also having pre-fried it (a la many other recipies)!

Could it be the type of onion? I use the big Spanish sweet ones, and I've read -here and elsewhere- that smaller cooking onion should be used.  I would have thought though, that sweet onions would be LESS likely to produce a bitter result.

I generally stick pretty close to recipies to avoid introducing unintentional variables,

Anyway, just though I'd 'run this one by' everyone....

When to add leaves to the cooking process is a bit of a dilemma!  I tend to grind up my dried methi leaf and add it with the spice mix and chillie early on, i.e. I 'flash-up' the oil 'till really hot add one small ladle of base (this has the same effect of making a paste with the spices and water, it reduces the risk of burning), and then add my spices, cookiing on a high heat for 30 seconds or so, then I add the remaining base etc etc.

I'm not sure if that's the right time to add methi, I've read conflicting advice on this, some add it as I do, some wet the whole dried leaves and add them near the end of the process.  'My' method seems to work but I couldn't say if its the best way!

Interestingly, curry leaves are typically added early on also: my Dad & brother went to a demo in the East End, and told me that the curry leaves were added to very hot oil, before anthing else.  Yet fresh corriander is added just before serving (usually that is, except when it appears in some base recipies, then of course, by the time the finished dish is prepared the corriander has had quite a long time of cooking).

I'd be interested to hear other view on this.....

The received wisdom (various weighty books), seems to be that garam masalla is added near the end of the cooking process to retain its subtle flavours as far as possibe, coriander leaf is often treated in a similar manner.

I read the 'Parker21' recipe with interest for this reason, superficaily it struck me as odd that garam M was added this early in the cooking process. I have previously mentioned that the chef of the Gatwick Tandoori did not add Garam masalla to his final dishes; but I have absolutely no idea if he added it to the base!  He may well have done!

Interestingly, I once found the a piece of star anise in one of his madras's!  This is interesting because this spice is often used in garam masalla (albeit usually ground up).  this seems to suggest that he was including 'garamy' type ingredients in his base sauce!! Or he may have slipped them into the madras he demonstrated to me when I was not looking (unlikely I watched him like a hawk!), or possibly he usually put it in his finished dishes, but did not the day I watched him!

Interesting business this curry thing!

Thank's ronnoc, your posts have been really informative.

I've been making a modified KD base for several years, I add some home made chicken stock that has been lightly spiced with bay, star anise, black pepper corns etc. Recently I've tried adding small amounts of celery and carrot.  The base I make looks VERY similar to 'curry-house' base, as do several of the other bases on Cr0. However, I never got the chance to taste the real base before its final modification into a finished dish, so I can't comment whether 'mine' is close or not.

I would say that in my opinion, a couple of the bases on here are completely 'wide of the mark'.  I accept this may sound a little arrogant, bearing in mind that I have not attempted them all.  But I have seen the REAL thing, and they not thick and dark.  The final dishes often are thick and dark (depending on what the finished curry is supposed ot be), but the base sauce is most certainly NOT!

Others here have said that they feel a base should be relatively unobtrusive, to provide the chef with optimum flexibility in producing a wide range of finished dishes, that is certainly born-out with what I've seen in restaurant kitchen!

I must say I am torn between the 'ronnoc' base or the 'saffron'.

I would be interested to know whether the garlic/ginger in the 'ronnoc' version is a pre-bought paste, or made by the chef?

I used my last batch of base, and tarka daal last night make a Dansak; so the choice of which base to make next is looming!  Having a take-away (curry of course!) tonight to celebrate the wife's birthday.  I just hope I get the chance to make some more base before I 'keel-over' from the effects of a high fat diet!!

Forgot to mention, also add 2 tbs tomarto soup and a leve tps brown suger to my Mad/vind type stuff!

Lovely, thanks; but you did not nswer C. A.'s question about grams or mls.

It's very interesting that many bases use a tarka stage involving tomarto eg KD and Bruce Edward's, and just as many don't.  I'm beginning to conclude that it can't make much difference!

Please ignore the part of the question that asks 'how much base'!  I'm not the most careful of readers!

Hi CurryQueen

Is the 'garlic/ginger' puree you use home made or bought?  If bought I presume you mean a puree already containing both, not separate garlic puree and ginger puree.  Is it the sort of stuff made by Barts or Kohinoor?

How much of the base do you put in your Patia?

regards

I've been using the KD base for ages, and I find it very good.  I can also say that it looks pretty much identical to curry base I've seen a curry-house kitchen (The Zari, in Crawley w.Sussex, about 10 years back when it was the 'Gatwick Tandoori').

In my opinion, in common with many others here, the recipies for individual dishes are 'way off'.  I've seen a madras being prepared by a proper chef (same place), and it certainly did not incorporate cumin and garam massala.  The chef used chillie powder and a spice mix that looked a lot like many of the mixtures recommneded on this site (those that contain a small amount of 'curry powder' with other spices added).  This powder was slighty orangey, not at all like shop bought curry powder (slighty yellowish brown).

My last few batches of madras/vind type curry have been made from KD base, using chillie powder (2tbs), a ready made curry powder from an Asian Grocers called 'Kashmiri Basaar', and a small amount of ground dried fenugreek (methi) leaf.  I use one level tbs (15ml) of basaar to 450 mls of base.

The Basaar, by the way, was the suggestion of someone from this site, don't want to appear ungrateful, but I can't remember who, sorry!

I also add a 'shake' (less than 1/4 lev tps) of Worchestshire Sauce (something else the professional chef did), and 1/2 tps cider vinegar. 

Result is very good!

Quote from: Panpot on December 09, 2007, 10:42 PM
Over the weekend I had a go at Dylan's recipe having previously been a great follower of Pete's and have to say that the results were excellent. Since I didn't need to heat the oven I have to say that I preferred it and allthough I only soaked the rice in very hot water for 10 minutes the final dish was much better than I expected and until something better shows up I now think I will be using Dylan.s from now on. Isn't it just superb to have such fantastic choices to make because of this awesome site. Thanks again Panpot

Re Dylan's method, roughly how long before the rice becomes 'al-dente'? Can't be arsed checking it every 30 seconds!  About 12mins or so??