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Messages - Razor

#311
Whilst understanding the science behind what we do with regards to cooking, is a very desirable piece of knowledge to have, at this/my level of cooking, it is less important than having the technique correct.  Obviously, if I have the technique correct, then logically I have the science part right too(I think :o)

I remember the days when the trusty wok was my weapon of choice, my curries were ok but there were elements of the BIR flavour/aroma missing. By changing my pan to an Ali BIR style pan, my results improved a great deal.  I must say though, I didn't change my pan because I thought that I'd get better results, I changed it because I'd seen the Ali pan being used in the BIR's, TA's and videos, as CA points out "Monkey sees, Monkey does"

The first noticeable difference for me was how quickly I could reduce the first ladle of base.  In my wok, it seemed to take twice as long to reduce as it does in my Ali pan.  My understanding of this is because the wok is, by design, a bowl whereas the pan has a much flatter cooking area, therefor, the reducing sauce in the pan is much shallower and reduces quicker. Once that first lot of base reduces, I am left with a layer of oil covering the base of the pan with the spices cooking/caramelising just below the layer of oil.  This is where I really start to scrape the spices back into the oil, leaving them long enough to "singe" but not too long that they burn or stick to the base of the pan. Then in goes the rest of the base, and I reduce to my preferred consistency.

Now, I don't try to claim that this technique is "the BIR way" but I do know that it works for me and produces my very best efforts of which I'm very very happy with.

I never managed the level of success that I have now with my trusty old wok but, a wok and a Karahi are pretty much the same thing (IMO) so how do they (the pro's) still manage to get all the elements correct when cooking a balti or karahi dish?  My only guess is heat?

There are so many variables to BIR cooking that we are never going to get a "1 size fit's all" solutions.  Here are some of the conflicting viewpoints that Spicey eludes to;

Never fry garlic, v Always fry garlic
Cook hard and fast v Cook slowboat style
Lemon juice/dressing in a madras v never use lemon juice/dressing in a madras
Never burn the spices v burn the spices to get a smokey note
always keep the pan as hot as you can v heat, quench, heat, quench
Garam masala goes in only at the end v Garam masala can be used at the beginning ;)

The list goes on.

Understanding the science is without doubt, good knowledge to be in possession of but for me, and this is only my opinion, technique is key and if the technique has been developed through scientific means, then great but I don't really need to know that, I'll leave that to Heston ;D

Ray :)
#312
I do use an Ali pan (used to use a wok) and for me, it has improved my BIR style dishes.  I don't know the science behind it but the pan gets hot quick, cools down quick, and is what the BIR's/TA's use in the main, so that has to be good enough for me.

As for Ali pans having no hotspots, well unless you are using a commercial gas ring I don't think that it really applies as much to the home cook because most domestic hobs, will create at least 4 "cool" spots because of their design. So I guess by logic, there will be four hot spots caused by what the pans sit on (the burner stands?)

Reducing and caramelising - For me, one certainly follows the other.  Reducing the base to rid it of it's liquid, leaves the concentrated base in a position to be caramelised, and is why BIR chefs encourage us to keep scraping back caramelised base back into the resultant curry.  The Taz-Mick base is a perfect example of this.  In goes the first ladle and is reduced to a thick paste, before the second ladle goes in.  This, in some small part, must caramelise/singe/burn the spice paste, which is what it has become!

Back on topic; the interesting thing about the c2go base for me, is that the majority of the liquid in the early stage comes from oil and not water!  It means that the veg is slowly deep frying rather than boiling and to some extent, flavouring the oil, another subject currently being explored by members.  Logic suggests that this should offer a different taste to a boiled base and is why I'm keen to give it a try.  Unfortunately, Julian doesn't seem to really want to get involved on cr0, so it's hard to get the information one requires to try this and other recipes exactly to spec, shame!

I would say that the most important thing to understand here is, there are many varied techniques that can be applied to create the BIR flavour, Julians being one of them, Micks being another and Chewytikka's being another.  I have tried Micks(CBM) base and it was fantastic, and so was the resultant curries using this base in conjunction with his preferred methods.  I have also been using Chewytikka base of late, and his methods in the main, which is also giving me perfect results.  Two very different methods, two very different base sauces but both resulting in fantastic BIR style dishes, albeit very different from each other!

Hey ho, that's my "oar" stuck in anyway :P

Ray :)


#313
Hi Mick and many thanks,

QuoteOnce you have tried this type of product against fresh you will be able to tell the difference.

I get the impression that you prefer fresh chicken over the injected stuff then?

Hi UB,

That size appeals to me more, so, if you don't mind, how much are you paying for that and, is this also plumped up with water?

Ray :)
#314
Many thanks ifindforu,

Would I be correct in saying, where it is listed as 'Chicken breast 80%' that would mean 80% chicken:20% water?, Also, are the fillets individually wrapped so they can be easily seperated?  And finally, how much would I be looking to pay for a 10kg box?

Sorry for all the questions mate :-\

Ray :)
#315
Hi ifindforu,

So to take this slightly off topic but, I do still think it relevant to the post.  This injected chicken, It comes in 10 kilo slabs?  What exactly does that mean because I've got a vision in my head of a big hunk of chicken breast weighing 10kg :-\

Do you buy it frozen or is it "fresh".  Do you have a brand name that I could look out for, as I would be interested in seeing how this stuff performs against my usual "halal" chicken from my local Asian Butcher?

Ray :)
#316
Hi UF,

Quote from: Unclefrank on December 19, 2011, 02:06 PM
Sorry it took a bit to answer went to the German Market in Birmingham on Saturday ;)

No problem mate, my wife has not been away from the ones in Manchester the last week! ???

Many thanks for the answers, I'd really like to give this a go very soon, but I think it's going to be sometime after Christmas day I'm affraid :(

Ray :)
#317
Is that right ifindforu? 30 plus minutes to cook the chicken?  Seems like a hell of a long time to me.  Won't it go tough?

Ray :)
#318
Any thoughts UF?
#319
Slightly off topic, but I feel it fair to warn you guys......Julian is a;

Manchester City Fan >:(

Ray :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :-\
#320
Talk About Anything Other Than Curry / Re: Thank You
December 18, 2011, 09:28 PM
Hi Abdul,

Really hope that you enjoy the festive season too, and a happy and prosperous new year to you and yours,

Ray :)