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Messages - Cory Ander

#3091
Quote from: Mark J on January 11, 2007, 09:33 PM
I reckon the smell/taste are mainly the fried tomato paste and garlic in various forms

I agree, Mark, that these ingredients (particularly the garlic) have a major influence on the overall taste and smell of a curry.  However, I simply do not believe that they alone (or in combination with any particular cooking technique) are sufficient to create the intensity and depth of flavour and aroma, or the savouriness, richness and smokiness that I describe!  Ditto for the onions! :-\

Of course, I'm probably wrong!  ;)

Regards,
#3092
Quote from: NairB on January 11, 2007, 11:08 PM
...........I think the we are looking for a full, intense smoky taste brought on by the oil infusing with other ingredients the BIR uses to fry bahjis, chips etc. (As read in another post).....

Maybe NairB....I agree that the oil from frying onion bhajis, pakoras, etc, gives the oil a wonderful aroma. 

I've often used this oil to subsequently cook curries.  However, in my opinion, this generally results in curries that taste simply too "oily".....much like chips do when the chippy hasn't changed its oil often enough!  :-\
#3093
Hi Andy,

Thanks for this Andy.....it makes for very interesting reading  8)

I have a couple of questions that I would appreciate you clarifying, if you wouldnt mind, please?


  • Presumably, a chef's ladle is 100ml and a chef's spoon is 60ml (as per your curry base thread)?
  • no tomato puree or paste here then...is that right?
  • why sunflower oil rather than vegetable oil?
  • what's in the "aromatic salt"?
  • most BIR curries I've ever had (e.g. madras, vindaloo, korma, CTM, etc) have a sauce which is very smoothe, with no sign of chopped onions or chopped anything else, will this also produce such a smoothe sauce?
  • are chopped peppers used in most dishes then?
  • are you saying that adding MSG influences the aroma?

Thanks for the posts!  And keep them coming!  I hope you have the tolerance to answer the many the many questions that will arise!  ;)

Regards,
#3094
Lets Talk Curry / Re: On the BIR Cooking Sequence
January 12, 2007, 03:15 AM
I hope you don't mind either Andy, but I've copied the following from your "cooking methods" thread.

Again, this seems to be particularly relevant to this thread and, again, is significantly different to the other sequences descibed above...maybe most notably for the particular ingredients used though:


  • no tomato paste or puree
  • use of sunflower oil rather than vegetable oil
  • addition of "aromatic" (i.e. spiced) salt
  • addition of asafoedita
  • possible addition of MSG

Quote
(from Andy2295 here:  https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1501.msg13098#msg13098)

Now on to a typical curry.

I will not list the individual spices as these will be posted later.

1)   The gas on one ring is turned full up.
2)   One ladle of oil is added to the frying pan. The pan is placed on the ring until the oil just starts to smoke. (By the way the oil is sunflower oil).
3)   2 chefs pinches of aromatic salt is added, ? of a chefs heaped spoon of very finely chopped onion is added along with a 2 chefs pinches of very finely chopped garlic and  a 2 chefs pinches of very finely chopped mixed red and green peppers. Very quickly and in a circular motion the back of the chefs spoon is pressed into the pan bottom effectively squeezing the pan ingredients. The ingredients are then tossed using the spoon. As the oil is so hot this takes only about 20 seconds as you will see the onions changing colour.
4)   Then the spices are added for the required dish, with chilli powder and a chefs pinch of fresh methi leaves added last along with a chefs pinch of asafoedita. The spices again are pressed into the pan as above and scraped across the pan with the edge of the spoon again for about 20 seconds(The scraping stops the burning of them)
5)   Then 1 ladle of base sauce/gravy is added and stirred in. When this bubbles a second ladle of base sauce/gravy is added and stirred.
6)   Depending on the smell at this point a chefs pinch of msg may or may not be added (experience of smell only tells)
7)   The meat is then added which is usually 10 cubes. Stirring continuously now to avoid sticking and to get the meat fully heated through.
   At approximately 5 minutes a teaspoon of pre-made cooked paste is added (recipe to follow) and stirred in immediately followed by a chefs pinch of chopped coriander leaves(cilantro) and stirred again.
9)   The pan is removed from the heat rested for 30 seconds and the curry is placed into the famous foil container with another pinch of chopped coriander leaves(cilantro), lid on and labeled. Hey presto all done. A quick rinse of the pan and onto the next order??
#3095
Curry Base Chat / Re: Powder or puree
January 11, 2007, 06:46 AM
Hi Vindaloo,

I'm not sure if you're only refering to garlic and ginger here are you Vindaloo? 

I think that most curry base recipes prescribe using pureed (usually fresh rather than bottled) garlic and ginger.  If you are only thinking of garlic and ginger, maybe check out the following threads:

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1192.0
https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1412.0

Regards,

#3097
Yellow Fingers and Bart,

You've both tried making CP's curry base haven't you? 

If so, where did you buy your "Knorr Vegetable Bouillon catering paste" from please?

Thanks,  :P
#3098
Quote from: King Prawn on January 09, 2007, 04:48 PM

......IMO the taste does not come from chicken or any other meat.....I say this with conviction as my local BIR has both a normal and vegetarian gravey in the kitchen and either will produce 'the smell' and 'the taste'.....

I hear what you're saying KP, but the intensity and depth of flavour and aroma, savouriness and richness do not have to (only) come from chicken or meat or their (natural or pre-processed) stocks. 

They can also come from (natural or pre-processed) vegetable stock and/or other (pre-processed) non-meat based seasonings and flavour enhancers (e.g. salt/MSG/sugar/starch/onion/garlic/spice/herb/articial flavourings/etc mixes).

Regards,
#3099
Hi All,

I am pretty certain that I can cook decent curries that are a match for many BIRs and better than some.  For dinner, last night, I had the following (home cooked by my own fair hands of course!):


In my opinion (ever so humble, of course  :P!), my curies have good appearance, good flavour (and good diversity of flavour), and good aroma.  Arguably, they have "The Appearance", "The Taste" and "The Smell" of a good BIR curry!  But please feel free to beg to differ (appearance wise anyway)!

But!.....SOMETHING IS STILL MISSING!?...and it frustrates the hell out of me!  I'm sure that many of you will also share similar frustrations!  :-\

I note (or imagine I note!) the following differences between a good BIR curry and mine (and please don't mention going outside for a breath of fresh air!  ::)).

Good BIR curries:


  • Have a more intense flavour
  • Have a greater depth of flavour
  • Are richer
  • Are more savoury
  • Have a generally smokier flavour
  • Are somehow sweeter (without being "sugary sweet")

In a nutshell, whereas I feel that my curries have good aroma and flavour, they seem to simply lack the pure intensity and depth of flavour and aroma that good BIR curries have.  "How do BIRs achieve this?", I ask myself!  I'm sure many of you ask yourselves similar question!

I have tried so many things.  I have tried many different curry bases, many different ingredients, many different cooking techniques and many different cooking sequences.  I have read all of the popular BIR cooking books, back to front and even upside down!  I've roasted and ground spices and I've bought off-the-shelf spices.  I've made masalas and pastes and I've bought off-the-shelf masalas and pastes.  I've used whole spices and powdered spices.  I've used minimal spicing and I've used substantial spicing.  I've boiled onions and I've fried them.  I've both fried then boiled them.  I've used frozen onions.  I've used dry onions.  I've used fresh garlic and ginger and I've used bottled.  I've used powdered.  I've thoroughly browned garlic.  I've probably even burnt it!  I've added mooli and celeriac to my curry bases.  I've used vegetable oil, peanut oil and other oils.  Hell, I've even used olive oil!  I've used butter ghee.  I've even made my own butter ghee.  I've used lots of oil and I've used minimal oil.  I've used high temperatures and low temperatures.  I've used short and long times.  I've used fresh tomatoes, tinned tomatoes, tomato paste and tomato puree.  I've even used tomato ketchup and tomato soup.  I've used salt, MSG, stock cubes and other flavour enhancers.  I've made my own stock.  I've used white sugar, brown sugar and jaggery.  Well, I think you get my drift!

My current conclusion is that, whereas I'm sure that technique is clearly important, I am equally convinced that:


  • The Curry Base is THE critical (but not secret!) constituent of a good BIR curry
  • The "missing bit" (regarding intensity and depth of flavour and aroma, savouriness and richness) is probably some form of vegetable, fish, meat or chicken stock, and/or some other seasoning and/or flavour enhancer
.
I can see no other way that, particularly the intensity and depth of flavour and aroma, savouriness and richness, of a good BIR curry, can otherwise be achieved. 

There are a couple of Curry Bases here that use stock or seasoning or flavour enhancers:


I shall be experimenting more with adding stocks, seasonings and/or other flavour enhancers to my Curry Base (and curries) in an attempt to produce curries which are richer, more savoury, and which have more intense and greater depth of flavour and aroma.

Incidentally, and rather ironically, I find that adding MSG (a major constituent in many seasonings and flavour enhancers....including the above two seasonings) seems to dissipate the flavours and make them blander, less intense and somehow more "one-dimensional".

I'd love to hear of anyone else?s experiences with stocks, seasonings and flavour enhancers.  8)

Regards,
#3100
Quote from: jasper on January 04, 2007, 07:25 PM
.......Do you guys know how I can upload pictures here??......

Hi Jasper,

I've written some guidelines for uploading photos here:  https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1475.0

It would be great if you could try the guidelines and let me know if they make any sense and if they are at all helpful!  :P