Quote from: DalPuri on February 08, 2013, 10:48 PM
But I've never had to throw something away because i've burnt the spices. Revolting? Yes  ;D Burnt? Yes  ;D but never burnt spices.

I actually think it's quite difficult to burn spices using the Kris Dillon method, ie frying them in g/g paste, onions, base sauce or whatever as long as you keep stirring like mad to stop them sticking. Which is one of the reasons a lot of people have switched over to this method, but because you're less likely to burn them this way you can push them harder and further.

However, frying only in hot oil it's incredibly easy to burn them, particularly ground spices. They turn black very quickly. I burnt some whole spices the other day I was frying for a dhal tempering because I took my eye off them, had to chuck them and start again.

Quote from: DalPuri on February 08, 2013, 10:20 PMI've never managed to burn spices and wonder how many people have actually burned them?

Probably not that many, because...that's most peoples biggest fear and they under fry them instead. Which is (in my opinion) one of the reasons why many people don't get the best flavour from their dishes. Under fried spices are still edible, burnt one's aren't.

I just wish more people would unshackle themselves from this fear and deliberately push their spice frying right to point of them being burnt, so they know with 100% certainty exactly where that point is. I think most people will be surprised just how far you can push them beyond where they usually stop, I guarantee their end results will improve no end. This is such a key stage to get right.

Just make sure you have a good extractor fan going if you're going to do this though

Quote from: DalPuri on February 08, 2013, 09:52 PM
And even then there's still plenty of time before they burn.

I premix my spices in a stainless serving dish ready to go in and it's a quick whoosh in go the spices and immediate stirring and shaking off the pan. There's almost no delay between adding and stirring for me.

There can't be any delay because of the high heat I'm cooking at.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on February 08, 2013, 09:52 PM
...and then empty the container into the wok, the lack of a third hand makes a cool wok a much safer implement in terms of the risk of spice burn.

Ahhh! Well I don't use a wok for that very reason, it gets far too hot, far too quickly and yes, there's every possibility you'll burn your spices. My wok's seasoned anyway so isn't any good for frying BIR style curries in.

Phil

Thanks for clarifying the logic behind why people do that, it seems perfectly rational.

However, I've seen it done both ways. Chefs holding the pan handle with one hand, with the pan still on the heat, dipping their chefs spoon into the mix spice with the other and straight into the pan and stirring.

As I said, I'm very much in the camp of adding it whilst the pan stays on the heat myself and I can't see myself changing anytime soon to be honest. I like to keep the heat right up there when adding spices.

It would be interesting to hear from others as to what they do.

The finished result looks great! (Interesting side dish )

I hate to be pedantic (yeah I know I am) but it seems you're adding your chopped green chilli twice. Can you just clarify that? Are you adding two lots or just one lot?

Add green chilli and fry for 30 secs
Add garlic/ginger and green chilli and fry for around 30 secs

Also, you mention 1/2 tsp of methi. Is that ground methi powder or dried methi leaves?

Quote from: meggeth on December 25, 2012, 05:54 PM
Just wanted to ask experienced chefs whether they fry spices (Bruce Edwards style), or cook spices with the sauce (Kris Dillon style), and do you think it makes any difference to your finished Curries?

I assume by Bruce Edwards style you mean straight into hot oil and by Kris Dillon style you mean into something frying in hot oil whether it be onions or garlic/ginger paste etc. I don't really think it matters which you do as long as you don't let the spices burn.

The Kris Dillon style has become popular for the simple reason that there's more margin of error due to the water content still being in the pan which gives you more control. There's less room for error in the Bruce Edwards method because if you misjudge the oil temperature those spices can go from being okay to burnt in seconds.

The big advantage of the Kris Dillon method is that there's an indicator as to when all the water has gone, because the oil separates, there's no indicator with the Bruce Edwards method to tell you that, hence how much easier it is to misjudge the cooking time.

I like to push my spice frying to the very limits before they start to burn and frequently continue frying for anything up to a minute after oil separation because I want to extract the maximum flavour from them as I believe that the frying of spices is the key stage that shapes the final flavour of the dish. This is done on a pretty high heat with constant stirring to stop them sticking and burning.

I've never understood why, in many videos (and even suggestions on here) people take the pan off the heat when they add spices to be fried. Why? Why are you dropping the heat, then raising it again?

Quote from: chewytikka on October 26, 2012, 11:23 PM
....because like any scum its the impurities created by the boiling process and in this case oil separation. It really is hard to believe some people think it has a value and a good taste.

No it isn't, impurities that is.

It's actually coagulated lipoproteins, proteins combined with lipids (fats). Proteins when combined with lipids when boiled coagulate and have a lower density than oil and water and so float to the surface. The only effect they have on stock or base gravy is to make it cloudy. Given that base gravy is opaque anyway, they really don't make any difference whether you stir them back in or skim them off.

Quote from: chewytikka on October 26, 2012, 11:23 PM
It's similar to a BIR Chef doing a huge pan of precooked Lamb or Beef, the first stage is to quickly boil the meat to get rid of it's impurities (in the form of Scum) This is washed away, fresh water added then the clean meat is precooked.

Still peddling the old unscientific monkey-magic, without actually understanding it then Chew 

Quote from: George on February 08, 2013, 06:36 PM
I always thought a good chef will taste everything before letting it leave the kitchen.

Who said BIR cooks were good chefs? In any case they're not chefs in the strict sense of the word, they're just line cooks. Just replicating dishes to a known recipe in a conveyor belt line.

In any case, imagine having to taste every single BIR dish you have to cook from a Korma to a Phall? Your taste buds would probably be frazzled to the point you couldn't taste jack shit.

Let's not confuse the delicacy, complexity and general high level of French Haute Cuisine (where tasting each dish is essential) to to your average BIR line cooks. They're about as different as chalk and cheese.

I expect Atul Kochar's restaurant tastes all their dishes before they leave the kitchen, but your average BIR is light years away from the food of Atul Kochar in terms of sophistication and price.

Quote from: mdex on June 20, 2011, 02:09 PMThe sauces for these are very thick and the meat in very small chunks.

Anyone eaten here and have any pointers about how to get a nice thick sauce? Or is it just as simple as cooking for longer/using less water.

When I was in Leeds last I went to the Akbars there and I agree, the sauce was notably thick and quite a dark brown and as you say the chicken was in very small chunks. I remember the dishes having a very intense depth of flavour, quite complex.

The only way (I know of) achieving this is by multiple base sauce reductions. That's where the colour and thickness come from and of course that intense depth of flavour.

When I say multiple reductions I mean simply reducing down 3, 4 or more ladles or chefs spoons of base sauce one by one. In other words, add a spoon of base sauce, reduce it down, add another reduce that down and so on, then continue with the recipe.

I've been experimenting with this quite recently and it does indeed add thickness, colour and flavour intensity.