Hi Chewy,

Yes, I did add the raw gg paste and cooked it for no longer than 1 minute more.  It was in the pan however for another couple of minutes whilst I cooked a paratha on my tawa, so I guess the residule heat could have finished off the gg paste?

It was really tasty and had a wonderful sweet note to it, something that you will know that I look for in a good curry.

I've got to admit, most of my best efforts have come about using various pieces of other peoples jigsaw.  To me, that's what cooking is all about, discovering something wonderful from what you have to hand.

Ray

Hi Barry,

When you say overspiced, do you mean the base or the resultant curries.  Must 1st thought was, hell, there is a lot of spice going into the base but then Julian goes on to explain about adding the extra water, so I gave it no further thought.

The garlic chicken was really good but, in fairness to Julian, I can hardly claim it to be the curry2go garlic chicken, there were too many alternative ingredients used for it to be true to his recipe.  Still, very nice nonetheless.

Ray

Hi George,

There isn't much in that last post that I could disagree with but just a couple of points.  Your "come dine with me" was a great idea but unfortunately, it was always going to be difficult to get off the ground, for a number of reasons really.  It's a brave man or woman that would feed 5 or 6 strangers, in their own home, with the pressure of making sure that the dishes were upto scratch.  Then there are some that are just uncomfortable with having strangers in their home, nevermind cooking for them.

Then there is the practicality of it.  How do we get to each others houses?  I know you suggested the participants be local to each other but even so, 30 miles or so, is still a long distance to travel for a curry.  In principle George, it was a great idea, and you suggested it for all the right reasons but it was always going to be hard to execute in my opinion.

QuoteWhat do we have to show for about 7 years of R&D? No as much as some people might have hoped.

I guess it's a question of what people are actually looking for George.  Spiceyokooko, obviously loves the "understanding" of the art, and goes into things in fine detail, others are novice cooks (in any cuisine) and are amazed at how good the food is that they are producing.  These are the guy's IMO that frequent the forum but do not contribute, which is fine BTW. 

Then there are those like me, who has been trying to crack curries for years but couldn't get the info that I needed, I find this forum and "eureka" I'm in my element, only to find that it has become a drug and the more you do (in our case the more we cook) it's not enough. 

Of course, there are those that think that they will save themselves a few quid, oh how wrong they are :

So, have we failed or have our own expectation got higher?  I would think the latter.

Ray,

p.s, I have just made a version of c2g garlic chicken.  I used chewys base, my spice blend, jarred ginger and garlic past, rajah tandoori masala. I didn't use his onion sauce, I used a portion of my onion paste instead (Nothing like the c2g garlic chicken really is it? )  I've got to say, it was absolutely marvellous, really tasty.

So, from someone else's recipe, I now have ideas to create my own version of it, surely, that's what it's all about?

Spicey,

Quote from: spiceyokooko on December 23, 2011, 07:47 PM
What I find so frustrating is, trying to achieve that final 5% by wading through thread after thread of conflicting opinion takes me further away rather than closer to where I want to be.

And therein lies the real problem, everybody's "5%" is somewhat different to each others, hence the conflicting opinions.  None of them are wrong but many of them will conflict with what you and I believe to be true/correct.  I mean, have you personally ever tasted anise in a madras?  I know I've never seen green pepper and onion (Ala chewytikka) in a madras!  It's not wrong, and could well be regional but it does conflict with my "madras goal"

QuoteIt's a shame you didn't go the whole hog and fly solo,

Not sure at the time that I felt confident enough, actually, scratch that.  I was confident enough in my own ability but I was working on many things at once at that time and I guess I wanted to introduce them gradually.  Using CA's recipes/method was, at the time, the safe option.

If the truth be known, I have since dropped using my own base in preference to using chewytikkas 3 hour base because, it's simply better than mine IMO.  Every dish that I cook with it, never fails to deliver.  Chewy has had much experience in the BIR environment going back over 30 years I believe.  Now this may be a tad lazy on my part but he has demystified 30 years worth of BIR secrets in less than 6 months.  If a member is willing to share with us in 6 months, what it took him 30+ years to acquire, then out of respect, it's only fair that I should give his recipes a go, right?

I'll never stop experimenting though because part of the fun is, putting your own stamp on a dish. Taking a perfectly good dish and making it great, which is what a good deal of us here at cr0, try to do.  Or, even to emulate your favourite restaurant or takeaway, that is the goal of most I should imagine?

Ray

Hi Spicey,

Yes you are correct, at the very beginning I did follow CA's methods and recipes, but further into the thread I do indicate that I changed this by creating a spice mix that I believe compliments my base and whilst I did still follow CA's methods, the flavour of the dishes changed somewhat, as you may expect them to.

The use of curry powder has always been a contentious issue and "guilty as charged", I used it because that's what I believed the BIR's and TA's did/do.  As you rightly point out, it's probably nigh on impossible to pick out the minor spices such as cloves, mustard seeds and so on but as an entity in itself, I did notice a different flavour when I omitted the commercial curry powder.  Again, as intermated in the post, I'd tried many variables before I settled on my spice blend and my base sauce, and I thought that the settled versions I'd come up with was the best that I could achieve at the time!

My main reason for pointing you towards the thread was to show you that, whilst I (and maybe others?) may not totally understand the science behind BIR cooking, I do experiment to get me closer to what flavour it is that I'm in search of. Sometimes, that means copying methods that I've seen or heard of, if only to rule them out later.

Very similar to 976's bhuna, I've been experimenting lately with madras.  There is a definite anise note to my local TA's madras.  Not to everyones taste, and certainly won't be everyones idea of what a madras should be but it's a very good madras, in my opinion.  Now, chewytikka had the good grace to try fennel seeds in his own madras which by his own admission "kicked the shit out of it".  I also tried fennel seeds in varying amounts, and it just wasn't right.  I then tried star anise, frying it off in the oil at the start and it was close, but still no cigar.  I now crush/grind half a very small star anise and add this to my mixed powder (only for madras) and it's there, it totally replicates my local TA's madras.  But here is the annoying thing, when I mentioned it to the TA owner, he looked at me like I had two heads.  Now, he's either a) throwing me off the scent or b) he gets that flavour by other means?

When you start out trying to emulate any kind of cuisine, everyone of us needs a starting point.  It just happens that in BIR cooking, that starting point for the most part is a base sauce and a spice mix. Yes, you could try to create your own from the very start but that would take some very creative thinking for most of us and so, the safer option is to try a already published recipe. Once you are armed with these two elements, and you have practised over and over again, it's all down to recipe refinement for me.  I suppose that IS the science, even if some of us, don't realise that.

Ray

Hi Phil,

Ok, what I should have said is "if you understand the technique, then you understand the science as far as a layman could"  that being for example; you know caramelising the spices is the correct thing to do (for some) because it produces  the sought taste but, you don't necessarily understand the absolute science ie; sugars being released and turning to liquid at x temperature and so on blah blah blah....

Do you see what I mean?

Ray

Hi Spicey,

Sounds like a worthwhile experiment and to be honest, I have already done this.  I did create my own base and spice mix to go with it.  It did at the time, teach me quite a lot one thing being that, a good base sauce does not need to be complicated to produce a good curry.

Anyway, here's a link to it, have a read https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0

Here's a link to something else that I was experimenting with at the time, https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5189.0

And my spice mix https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4706.0

As you can see, I do like the odd experiment or two ;D

Ray

Hi UF,

Well I gave these a try last night and got to say, brilliant, really good.

So, I need to clear up one or two things.  I didn't have enough SR flour to do the recipe to spec, I only had about a quarter of a cup.  However, this took nothing away from the cooked paratha.  They came out very soft and flavoursome, cooked on my steel tawa on high heat and brushed with garlic ghee.  They blisterred evenly and looked the business.

As for the keema, the blending is a master stroke, really got the consistency that I'm familiar with.  Again though, it wasn't truly to spec as I did add1 tsp gg paste, 1 tsp kashmiri masala, 1 tsp of mixed powder, 0.25 tsp of ground cinnamon and a diluted chefsoon of tom puree.  The end result was really good.

Now before anybody kicks my head in for not trying the recipe to spec first, I was tasting, tasting, tasting, all the way through the recipe, and although the original spec keema was very nice, I wanted to introduce a few flavours that I am familiar with in my local TA's keema, tomato being one of them.

Many thanks UF, another TA recipe boxed off for me my friend ;D

Ray

Hi Spicey,

Quote from: spiceyokooko on December 23, 2011, 03:14 PM
Your point with regards to Julians 'tip' on allowing chicken to rise to room temperature before cooking is just that - a tip, that helps you produce better dishes. It doesn't, will not, and won't change the overall 'flavour' of the dish you're cooking and therefore knowing and understanding the why's and wherefores of that is entirely irrelevant to the overall flavour of the dish you're cooking.

No, it won't change the flavour but it will change your enjoyment of the final dish, another piece of the jigsaw.

The more I think about this discussion the more I think that I'm doing myself a bit of a disservice really.  As you say, the science and the technique are hand in glove and so, if you understand the correct technique, then I suppose that you understand the science to some degree?  Ok, I may not be able to explain it with a scientific approach but I do know what works and what doesn't for me at least.

It's turned out to be a quite interesting debate, really enjoyed it.

Ray

Hi Spicey,

Quote from: spiceyokooko on December 23, 2011, 02:15 PM

If people here want to continue the 'Monkey see's, Monkey does' route and all the restrictions that entails and are not interested in understanding what's going on - good luck to them. Personally I do not and do not want the restrictions of having to slavishly follow a recipe and want to go off and create my own dishes.

Personally I don't see that as being such a bad ambition to have.

No, it certainly isn't mate, infact, it's very admirable.

My position is this, (and I'm not trying to defend it, just to explain it)  I love BIR style food.  I love to cook BIR style food and I am over joyed when I get it right.  I would love to know the exact science behind what it is that makes it taste so good but it's not that easy to come by.  Certainly, you will struggle to get the answers of most BIR chefs and I suspect that this is simply because they themselves don't really know the science, they indeed use the Monkey sees, Monkey does method.  Julian himself in his precooked chicken video tells us not to cook the chicken straight from the fridge but cook it from room temperature or the chicken will go tough.  He doesn't explain the scientific logic behind that tip and I suspect that he himself doesn't really know, he just knows that it goes tough if cooked from anything less than room temperature?

That's not to say that I nor he is ignorant in any way, I'm just saying that, if I singe my spices on the bottom of my pan, I know that it will get me better results than if I don't.  I don't understand in it's entirety what actually happens, apart from the spices getting cooked properly but like Julian with his chicken, I know that this practice works for me.

Another example of this is hard boiled eggs.  My mother taught me a long time ago that if I boil eggs slowly for 10 minutes, then plunge into ice cold water, it stops the outside of the yolk from turning green and smelling like farts!
She didn't have a clue as to why this was and was a tip passed onto her from her mother (monkey sees, monkey does)

Through the wonders of WWW, I understand the science behind it now but for years I didn't and still produced, non fart smelling, hard boiled eggs, with a beautiful clean yellow yolk, dya see where I'm coming from?

Where I would agree in some part is, if I was to give up my job to persue my cooking interest, just like Julian has done, I would definitely want to know more about the scientific aspect of cooking because, and I think this is where you are coming from?, I'd want to not only equal my rivals, but I'd want to blow them out of the water.  Having a good knowledge of food science would, I should imagine, give me the tools that I'd need to achieve that

Ray