Yes, thanks jerry, id say its a very fundamental question isnt it.

Having said that, im not sure what temperature they need to get to from your answer jerry?  Sounds to me like they cant get much above 90C with the method you describe?  Can you elaborate please?

Some of them arent designed to be used indoors santa (safety reasons).  This may be an outdoor version so its worth checking bobby

How hot do the spices have to get to extract the most flavour from them please?

If its over 100C, does this mean that I have to add the dry spices to the hot oil (at 200C plus) before i add anything else containing water? 

Because as soon as I add water (like in onions or pastes) the temperature will struggle to get above 100C (and will probably be about 85C on a domestic hob) wont it? 

Will the flavour of the spices still be released ok at 100C and below?

Quote from: George on March 08, 2008, 12:25 AM

Quote from: Chris303 on March 07, 2008, 11:18 PMSalt is your neutraliser for Onions. If you add salt to chopped onion it will start reacting almost straight away..

Any idea what the chemical reaction is?

NaCl + what in the onions? = what neutalised chemical(s) and/or by-product(s)?

I dont think there is a chemical ("neutralising") reaction george?  I think it just physically masks the bitterness from your taste buds by making it more salty?

As chris said previously, you dont really have any spices in the LB or LB+ spice mixes to give you any flavour.  Just coriander and cumin really. Paprika is there mainly for colour and chilli is there mainly for heat and colour.

I wouldnt expect to get much "depth of spice" or flavour from effectively just two spices jerry

A wok burner http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STEEL-FRAME-LPG-LARGE-BOILING-RING-CALOR-GAS_W0QQitemZ130174043169QQihZ003QQcategoryZ67148QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Hi sarah and welcome to the forum.

Heres a photo of cloves (good for tootheache too  )

I think youre referring to the whole spices in the base sarah?  If so, Id take them out  before blending (especially the Cinnamon sticks).  You can leave the peppercorns in though, theyll be ok.

You can also leave all the other spices in if you wish but Id advise taking them out.  The recipe says to cook the base for only 30 minutes and they may not be soft enough to blend well by then.

Count the whole spices in and out sarah.  If you miss a clove or cardamom (theres always one you cant find!) it wont be the end of the world. 

But make sure you get all the Cinnamon sticks out though.  Otherwise you might get some hard woody bits in your base.  Really not nice.

Look forward to seing your pics

Not sure why you get that impression santa. My logic is as follows:

1.  You need hot oil (with smoke points generally well up above 200C) to fry the spices sufficently to release their essential oils and flavour.  Without reaching these temeperatures (I dont know what temperatures these are?) the spices will remain uncooked and raw tasting or bitter?

2.  Prior to this the hot oil may be used to fry any onions (do you really add onions to your main dish santa? Is this bir style?), garlic, ginger, etc.  As you say, water will be present which will reduce the temperature of the oil (but to what temperature though, I dont know.  Somewhere between 100C and the smoke point of the oil presumably?)

3.  Then the oil is definately used to fry the spices (dry or in a paste).  Here (at some stage) we need the temperature of the oil to rise sufficiently (certainly above 100C?) to fry the spices regardless of whether its bir or authentic style.  The temperature will only rise as the water (from the onions, paste, tomato puree, etc, evaporates, hence the accompanying oil separation?

So I question the sense of adding sugar (to the spice mix) knowing that we want to fry the spices at these high temperatures (up towards 200C or so?  I dont know?) for them to release their flavours.  If so, I imagine the sugar (in the spice mix) would quickly melt and burn at these temeperatures.  If not, the temperature wont be hot enough for the spices to be sufficiently cooked?

Make sense? 

Yes, I undertand that santa.  But once the water has evaporated, the oil and the spices (and sugar) will rapidly get to well above 100 and probably up to 200 and above wont they?  And the spices need that to cook properly dont they?  Isnt this when the oil separates (rises to the surface)?

I dont know enough about it.  What temperature do spices need to cook properly and release their volatile oils?  Much higher than 100C I presume?  Interesting, as you say.

No, Im seriously wondering what happens to the sugar secret santa. 

The spices will get to well above 100C wont they?  Especially if they are added as a powder (in this case with the sugar).  Otherwise they wont cook properly?  Say 200C?  Maybe higher?  And sugar melts at 140 to 185C or so?  Then decomposes?

But I suppose there is also sugar in the onions anyway?  Which will presumably also burn if youre not careful.  Interesting.  I need to study food science I think