For some reason when I click on quote George the link doesn't bring up his comment?

Anyhow, yes I meant to say bulb not clove, sorry was late/Zzds overdue lol.

Quote from: Phil (Chaa006) on May 17, 2012, 10:23 AM

Quote from: prawnsalad on May 17, 2012, 03:02 AM
My point in writing this is that although the curry he made was better than mine it still tasted home-made and had could of passed for one of mine.

Is it possible that you were suffering from sensory overload, just as if you had cooked the curry yourself ?  If you are interested in repeating the experiment, might it be worth asking your wife/partner/w-h-y to stay well clear of the kitchen until the dish is complete, then ask her to try it and to assess it in terms of the home-cooked : BIR spectrum ?

** Phil.

I considered this too but it was clutching at straws. I left most of the plate unfinished on the table and went to the pub to drown my sorrows only to run my finger round the edge of it on return. It was just the same.

Initially I wasn't going to post this as I was asked ?Not to show anyone else? (which I won't) but as I'm not giving anything away which isn't already here and I don't intend to record any videos based on it I figured it would be OK to share.

On my second trip to my new local TA I asked if anyone would be interested in giving me a one off lesson. I had previously got a Vindaloo + Na-an there and other than being a bit mild it had all the hallmarks of a decent BIR. To my surprise someone from the kitchen came through (who I don't want to name) and said he would do it as I was close and as long as it was early in the day. One week later he was round at mine.

Turns out he's the owner and it's his first business having previously worked for 10+ TA?s since 1990 is of Pakistani origin and speaks English very well. We got on fine and he offered to show me how to make their mix powder if I dropped round in the day.
He initially agreed to bring his own ingredients but after arriving just started picking up mine which I didn't object to as I was pleased he had kept his word by turning up. I had almost everything he wanted anyway and he did bring his own mix powder / Tomato Pur?e & G/G paste.

The objective was to make what I had eaten previously, volume based on 1-2 people.

There was nothing new with the Gravy:

7 or 8 ?Tesco Market Onions? (Lost count as he was so quick) (Whole outer layer off)   
About an eighth of a green pepper
Small piece of carrot
4 Green birds eye chillies (Non de-seeded)
Entire clove of garlic
An whole plum tomato (from canned)
Single medium Potato (Supermarket basics) (Said more was OK)
Small amount of coriander plant (with leaves)
About 200ml Sunflower oil (Said he used veg /didn't matter)
Got some fresh ginger out, he wasn't interested at all and said powder was fine if I wanted it (Didn't use either)
Water to cover and rapid boiled it for an hour (He measured this by the onions)

At this point he added about a level soup spoonful of Turmeric / Paprika / Cumin & Salt and gave it a further 10 minutes.

He'd brought his own hand blended to liquidise it and when done declared it the same as what they make in his TA.

This whole process was very quick and very rough, he didn't give the impression that pinpoint accuracy was in any way required.
Next he added enough oil to fry some of my king prawns, the reason theirs are totally different is that they all use U5 prawns which is why Indian KP dishes are ?2-3 more than Chinese KP dishes.

This oil was drained as waste and he started again with fresh which is when I asked about reclaimed oil, they DO use it and it DOES make a difference but in his opinion it is NOT a big difference.

This oil was heated all the way up (I was told this IS important) producing a very brief flame when the G/G paste went in followed by tomato pur?e he said this was pre-bought and that there were different types but it seemed exactly like watered down Italian stuff to me. Teaspoon of Methi leaf/Paprika/Turmeric/cumin/coriander/ Tandoori Masala/His own mix powder & slightly more chilli powder (He just spooned these out into the middle of the pan on top of each other as if he had all day then stirred them a couple of times mentioning not to add oil to the spices directly as this causes them to burn) before adding the base gravy.
Not much interesting after that, the prawns went in, we didn't bother with boiled potato although he does use it in his Vindaloos and he added a light sprinkle of whole cumin seeds to the finished dish along with lemon juice(lime is preferred.)
In fact the only thing I wasn't using before (and I don't know how I missed it) is Tandoori Masala powder.

In all fairness this was a worthwhile lesson for anyone working from scratch, he said the average person can do it as well as him after 4 attempts.

My point in writing this is that although the curry he made was better than mine it still tasted home-made and had could of passed for one of mine. Of course I mentioned this and he said it was down to my spices which although are still in date aren't fresh. He also said the cumin seeds should be hard (mine were soft.)
I accepted this as a real possibility, we shook hands and he left to get back to his TA.

Trying to keep his visit fresh in my mind I went to the only place where I live that does commercial spices and replaced everything for ?15 with bags of East End (He buys KTC/Jarrows)
Guess what?.Absolutely NO difference other than the spices smelled fresher when opened.

So although I won't be making better curry I can stop beating myself up that I'm doing something wrong. There is something that goes on in a TA that just isn't possible to do at home and I just proved it by watching a very experienced chef himself fail.

Perhaps it is the combination of several small things that only occur in a full time kitchen environment but unless I get a job in a TA for several years I now accept I am probably never going to know.

Nothing useful really but I felt I should at least try and give something back on here.

BTW Cost / Names /Places I would rather keep private. Thanks.

Just bought these from a Halal meat shop which is the only place selling commercial spice products in my whole city (Really it is.)



Just under ?15 the lot but I'm expecting that to be expensive.

I'm Interested in regional differences and wondered if anyone would mind drawing a comparison to how much they might buy it for in their locality.

Also really interested in hearing opinions on how I should store it once open / when I should bin it etc.

Thanks as always ..................

If I'd have known Julian was going to read this thread I'd have asked how many Bhajis go through a single oil portion.
His post is a testament to spiced oil, suggesting that there are no rules and that some people might like BIR without it but I don't think that applies to any of us.
Julian's videos have completed the story for me, in my first post here 18 months ago https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5074.msg48930#msg48930 I suspected oil was the missing necessity and I am now 100% convinced its why those who have got take away gravy samples have said they can taste the killer flavour already.
I so hope there's a way around this as otherwise we are all going to have to be satisfied with second best and that's bitter pill to swallow after so much time and research, at least for me.

Having watched several of the Public YouTube videos including the base gravy tutorial I think they're all excellent however I felt a bit down when he mentioned how important spiced oil in the base is seeing as he makes his as a by-product of Onion Bhajis.

I once tried a method from here which was basically the same as making base with more oil and reducing it right down with a few other spices then draining the oil, sadly it took ages and made little difference.

So could anyone who has bought the book briefly say if he mentions an easier method? Obviously I it needs to have the same effect as Bhaji oil.

If there's a working alternative I will buy it straight away otherwise probably not.

Thanks..

Thanks for the recommendations, just to say having made a fresh attempt on Saturday things have improved.

Not the first time I had seen this video but I watched again and took two things from it:

1. No Celery

2. I ditched chopping / frying the onion, ginger and garlic adding it to the pot wholesale instead while doubling the onions.

Definitely got rid of that taste and now I'm wondering if it was down to frying rather than the celery? Either way as pointed out here celery isn't thought to be widely used in BIRs anyhow.

But best of all and completely unexpectedly I have managed to create a very familiar smell I'm used to getting from real TA's, it really hung overnight in the room and smelt exactly like one I'd bought the next day.

I could also detect this substance in the curry but its flavour was extremely weak.

Hadn't added anything new either.   

Thanks again to CT for his advice.

Quote from: chewytikka on January 13, 2012, 02:55 PM
Hi prawnsalad
Probably  (celery, spring onion, red chilli, radish) causing your problem, you don't need these in a base.

Try this one, simple and never fails.

Pressure Cooker Curry Base (cost about 3 quid to make)
I use a 4 litre pressure cooker and I usually make 3 litres of concentrated finished base.
Thinned right down with water will make 5/6 litres.
If you haven't got a pressure cooker, simply boil for 45 mins to an hour, covered.

4 big Onions.
1 medium carrot,
1 medium green capsicum .
A quarter of white cabbage.
A handful of fresh coriander.
Small bulb of Garlic.
3 inch finger piece of fresh ginger.
Quarter of a tube of tomato puree.
1tbsp of salt.
1tsp of Haldi.
1tsp of Mixed Powder.

Put the pressure cooker on medium heat, add 150ml of veg oil, add  ginger & garlic
quickly stir fry and cook out (1minute)
Add all the veg, the pan should be just over three quarter full and 90% Onion.
Add quarter of a tube of tomato puree and pour on 500ml or 2 mugs of boiling water and 1tbsp of salt.
Clamp the lid on and turn the heat up high, until the pressure peaks.
Once under pressure, turn the heat down and time it for 30 minutes.


Switch off, transfer to sink and run the cold water on the cooker for a minute
then tip the valve to let the pressure escape.
Open and stir in 1tsp of Haldi and Mixed Powder, then stick blend smooth.

Now transfer the sauce to a clean curry pot,
(At this stage I pass the sauce through a food mill/sieve, old school) - optional
add three cups of boiling water, mix well and bring it back to the boil and cover.
"Important, leave on a high simmer, like a rolling boil."

A froth will start to appear. skim the froth off and discard, this will occur three or four times in 10 minutes
You will know when the sauce is ready, when the froth stops and the oil separates
and starts rising to the surface, skim any oil scum off and discard.

That's it', a lightly spiced Curry Base 'Garabi'

To make the mixed powder for this:-
2  tsp Madras Curry Powder
2 tsp Turmeric Powder
1 tsp Coriander Powder
1 tsp Cumin Powder
1 tsp Kashmiri Chilli Powder
0.5 tsp Garam Masala

cheers Chewytikka
Watch Video here : https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5606.0

Ah got it now, thanks.

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/4bce63552615764198c2993611cede13.jpg

I was mortified last year when my local pub became a BIR restaurant, becoming further depressed to see its OTT prices and then to learn of its mediocre reputation. However I have just (as in less than an hour ago) retrieved the menu pictured below from my front door.
This place located right at the end of my road is even closer, literally 30 seconds walk and has been a very popular Chinese for about seven years so I am surprised at it going.
As you will see from my previous posts I believe the only way to truly achieve actual BIR at home is by learning directly from TA staff so I fully intend to try and strike up some kind of rapport with the new owners and was wondering if those here who have gained kitchen access would comment on what worked for them conversation wise in terms of gaining trust as well as any easy traps to fall into.
The TA name loosely means fate or destiny but I read that it is also used to describe ?Allah's Will? so perhaps they are Muslim. I consider their prices cheap which tends to be the case Vs Indian owned businesses.
All opinions welcome.

|| Couldnt upload my 80k image, keeps saying upload folder is full? ||

Quote from: Razor on January 08, 2012, 12:52 AM
Hi Prawnsalad,

I would agree with both Phil and DP, celery seems to be the stand out culprit.  I say this because when I make a ragu, I usually use half a stick of finely chopped celery along with onion and carrot but, when I've used the whole stick, I have found a 'bitter' note to the sauce.  It took many many attempts for me to come up with this conclusion and so now, I stick to a half or less, and the bitterness is no longer present.

You may want to try to really knock it back to basics, using just onion, carrot, garlic and green pepper as you base veggies, and proceed with your spices and tinned tomatoes as normal.  Then, on each subsequent batch, introduce one of your other veggies, and see if the taste comes back?  That way, you may be able to pinpoint what it is that is giving you this unwanted flavour?

Hope that helps,

Ray

Yeah I figure that's the only way, so time consuming though...

Out of the veg I was thinking Carrot, green pepper or Celery. Now I will ditch the Celery first.

Thanks.