Quote from: livo on August 17, 2023, 09:38 PM
George, you didn't give any clue as to what you believe goes into a recipe that has potential. Naming restaurants over there has no benefit on a globally read forum.  I'd be happy to try your time consuming procedure if you'd care to provide details.

I read on here years/decades ago that the distinctive flavour comes from browned garlic. I think someone else said highly cooked chillis. I then had the thought that almost everything needs to be roasted so that's what I did and it worked very well. So I started by baking the onions, garlic, peppers and carrots in the oven to make my normal (markJ) base sauce. After all, recipes for roast chicken gravy often say to use a tray of roasted vegetables. All the spices I used were roasted as much as possible, then ground if needed. I used spiced oil with roasted ingredients, also. At the end, I added a classic tarka of browned garlic. I tried lemon, lime and tamarind as souring elements. My favourite is lime, closely followed by lemon. I really don't like tamarind and doubt it's hardly ever used by BIRs. Adding smoke makes it even better. A bottle of 'liquid smoke' was awful. Real smoke was better.

As for lentils, I suggest 100% red lentils are fine. Using other types of lentils, or a mixture, didn't improve the flavour at all.

Good luck! I fear you are handicapped if you have never tasted the real thing.

About 10 years ago, after a lot of experiments, I managed to produce a dhansak which I considered a match for some of the best examples at BIRs. But my method was incredibly time consuming and my guess was that restaurants achieve similar results but using faster techniques. I think I learned enough about what worked and what needs to be in the ingredients, to look at a recipe and know if it has potential or will probably be bland. An example of a really good dhansak was from the place mentioned by Phil recently - Zamans at Newquay. An example of a really bad dhansak was at Latifs just outside Stoke on Trent - the place behind the youtube channel Latifs Inspired.

Chicken dhansak has been my favourite BIR dish for many years. I'd say about 40% of BIRs serve a dish with the flavours I regard as essential. It's more than sweet, sour and a little bit hot. The best BIRs produce an earthy, smokey type flavour, which is almost completely missing in the other 60% of restaurants.

The Iceland product is primarily beef, followed by chicken and with only a very small amount of lamb. It's probably a similar mix to what I've occasionally enjoyed from kebeb shops and vans over several decades. Thank you SS for pointing it out.

Quote from: Peripatetic Phil on August 08, 2023, 08:42 PM
It is now some time since I last cooked a curry (sufficiently long, in fact, that I no longer remember when I last did so), but it is not that which inspires my question.  Rather, it is something that I experienced over the last two or three days.  On Sunday I played a bowls match in Newquay (Cornwall) and, as I always do when I am in Newquay, I later dined at Zaman's restaurant.  It is, as far as I am concerned, the best BIR in Cornwall, both food and service being beyond compare.  But after eating my starter (two extremely nice seekh kebabs, served with grilled onions which I wrapped in a chapati to eat), I felt too full to want to start on my main course, so asked the restaurant to pack it up for me to eat later.  I didn't eat it when I arrived home, I didn't eat it yesterday, but I ate it this evening.  It comprised a beautifully fragrant pulao rice, a well-textured sag aloo, and a lamb dhansak that clearly contained at least two different sorts of pulse/lentil.  But I didn't enjoy it (I ate barely one third).  Even after adding lime pickle (my standard accompaniment to a lamb dhansak) it just did nothing for me.  I am therefore beginning to think that I have tired of curries, and now need to find some other staple food on which to exist.  I realise that a BIR forum is perhaps not the best place to ask such a question, but I do wonder whether any current members of CR0 have ever had a similar experience.
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** Phil.

Phil - I'm sorry your tastes may be changing. Or perhaps it was bad luck, especially as the dhansak was stored for quite a long time. I agree Zamans produce very good food. I have enjoyed a very similar selection of dishes, as you ordered, after you introduced me to the restaurant, Once further visit, sitting down, and a third visit for a takeaway, Everything tasted great.

Update - I appear to be OK, long after eating the reheated chicken. i have become far more careful after suffering food poisoning shortly after arrival at a holiday destination in January. I'd bought a pack of three sandwiches from Aldi to enjoy as brunch on an early morning flight from Gatwick. They included prawns and chicken - both high risk. I'd done this before, and got away with it, but my luck ran out in January. The sandwiches were in the car boot overnight at fridge temperature. But when I entered the airport buildings, the temperature shot up to about 20C. I was there for about 2.5 hrs and on the aircraft for perhaps 1.5 hrs before I ate the sandwiches. So 4 hrs is double the safe time for food such as prawns and chicken to be at room temperature. At about 3pm that day, at my destination, I started to feel feint. Worse effects followed and spoiled the first 2 or 3 days of my holiday.

Quote from: livo on July 31, 2023, 10:21 PM
George, I simply would not even consider eating chicken meat that has been cooked and allowed to sit at 20'C for 9 hours and I don't understand why anyone would even do that. 

I did, last night! According to the NHS and other sources, it can take 48 hours or longer before you get symptoms from food poisoning, so I will let you know. It seems so unlikely to me. Let's say bacteria were starting to develop in the chicken for 9 hours before I put it in the fridge. But 24 hours later I simmered it in a sauce at 100C for 30 mins. The chicken pieces would be thoroughly heated through and I reckon any bacteria would be killed. It also tasted fine.

Quote from: livo on July 31, 2023, 12:02 PM
9 hours at 20'C would be in the bin or dog food for me.

Are dogs not susceptible to food poisoning?

I guess it's similar to many folks situation with turkeys at Christmas. If you eat in the evening, the turkey may not have cooled sufficiently to put it in the fridge before going to bed. So what can you do, unless you happen to have a blast chiller?

Here's a recent quote from an old thread:

Quote from: Peripatetic Phil on July 28, 2023, 09:45 AM

Quote from: livo on July 28, 2023, 12:36 AM
He initially says that he always uses his base after it has been cooled overnight and blended the following day. He goes on to say that he finds it to be at its best on day 3. However, in the follow up comments he says that he wouldn't use the base once it's been cooled and re-heated.

No !  He goes on to say that he "wouldn't do is re-heat blended sauce that has been allowed to cool" — "re-heat", not "use".  Yes, of course, "re-heating" is implicit in "using" but he was writing in the context of mixing one batch of sauce with another, not of cooking a curry.
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** Phil .

I noticed Phil's comment after planning to reheat roast chicken which I allowed to cool over night (9 hours) in the kitchen at around 20C. So it was at about 20C for way longer than the 2 hours which buffet food is alllowed to be out for, before it has to be discarded. It was then refrigerated for more than 24 hrs. I wouldn't want to risk making a sandwich with the cold chicken. But I aim to make a curry and simmer the chicken in the sauce for at least 20 mins. If any bacteria has started to develop, will 20 mins of simmering be enough to kill it off? Likewise, where's the risk with base sauce if it's been cooled, then reheated?

Quote from: tempest63 on June 12, 2023, 05:34 AM

Quote from: Robbo141 on June 11, 2023, 03:39 PM
Why the vinegar or lime juice?

I don't have a clue, maybe it helps separate the grains?

I guess it was the Dishoom cookbook which provided the option. I dislike options in recipes. Which did you use to get people asking for the recipe?