If some distinctly above-average recipes appear on this site, then perhaps some of the lesser BIR chefs may actually improve their dishes by taking selected ideas on board, e.g. by adding carrot and celery to their base sauce, if they don't do so already.

Quote from: Yellow Fingers on May 24, 2005, 04:42 PM
George was it you who was looking for a recipe for chicken biryani? What recipe are you using?

Yellow Fingers - I may well have asked before. I can't remember! But I don't have any specific recipes in mind for the two-part BIR chicken biryani which I hope to replicate: neither (a) the main rice-based part with the chicken in it, nor (b) the vegetable curry side dish. Perhaps there are some pointers here at this forum. 

I believe part (a) is based on curry sauce + pre-cooked pilau rice + pre cooked chicken + some spices
and part (b) might be curry sauce + pre-cooked vegetables + spices including fenugreek, a bit like for chicken madras, but not as much chilli.

One thing I forgot to say was to discard the bay leaf after the simmer, before hitting the liquidizer.

The yellow colour, from the tumeric presumably (0.5 tsp alone and a key ingredient of the curry powder), is no problem for my no.1 target dish - a BIR style chicken korma. In fact this base sauce tastes almost like a korma already and is almost spot on for colour and texture!

My no.2 target dish is the BIR vegetable curry which normally comes with a chicken biryani. Now, that is brownish, with perhaps a hint of red. From your comments, and my findings with other base sauces, the yellow colour will hopefully subside when I try making that.

MarkJ - I am so grateful to you for posting the "30-35 onions" base sauce recipe. Last night, I scaled it down roughly pro-rata to 2 onions, adapted it marginally, and ended up with by far and away the best base sauce I've ever made!  I've no doubt other base sauces listed here at this forum are good. It just happens that this is the first one I've tried, and I'm very pleased I did.

I encourage others to try Mark's recipe. Don't be put off by thinking you need to make the 30-35 onions version. I'm not saying it won't be even better, but I somehow doubt it. The previous versions of base sauce which I have tried over many years came from 'The Curry Secret', curryhouse.co.uk and, of course, Pat Chapman. All required a lot more effort than the MarkJ recipe, and none came remotely close in terms of flavour at the end. I am very optimistic that this base sauce will allow me to produce a good BIR chicken korma and various other dishes.

The colour is yellow, definitely not red, despite 2 tsps tomato puree being added.

As I said, this base sauce tastes excellent but, in a way, that's irrelevant, if promising. It will only be proven when I use it to make a final dish.

Regards
George

Quote from: Yellow Fingers on May 22, 2005, 10:33 AM

Quote from: pete on May 22, 2005, 10:11 AM
I think what we miss from our curries is not the  "taste" but the "smell"

For me this is absolutely true. And it's why, despite what others may say, I still think there is a missing 'secret' ingredient. That smell has to come from somewhere and it must be from something that we aren't putting in our curries.

This is what curryhouse.co.uk has to say:
"So are fenugreek leaves essential? No, but they do make the standard curries (do-piaza, Madras, dhansak, bhuna etc.) taste like they came from a restaurant. Having said that, no curry house puts them in all their curries. For instance, they taste awful with creamy or yogurty dishes such as tikka masala and korma."

and:

"if (green herby bits)...look a bit like thyme they are probably fenugreek leaves which, in any case, have a very distinctive aroma. They smell like every curry house you've ever walked past in the street."

He's probably right. But if it's so obvious, why is it that we haven't all agreed it's definitely fenugreek, dead simple to replicate at home, problem solved?

Quote from: Yellow Fingers on May 21, 2005, 08:02 PM
Has anyone done a scientific blind test of your best curries against restaurant bought ones on your friends?

I think this is an excellent idea. Thank you for a very worthwhile post.

Quote from: DARTHPHALL on May 21, 2005, 11:07 PM
Anyone tried Fenugreek

Fenugreek has long been my best guess for 'the smell' but I thought it was dismissed by people here. Whatever 'the smell' is, it is spicy and strong. It's certainly not the difference between 1 and 30 onions, it's not chicken stock, it's not celery or carrots or anything like that. All those ingredients are used in western/English cooking and are not remotely like what I smelt wafting out of the almost sealed take away delivery bag, 5 yards away outdoors, yesterday. You'd be lucky to get that strong a smell from an expensive ladies perfume. It's incredibly strong and I'm amazed we don't already know what it is with 100% certainty.

Quote from: pete on May 21, 2005, 01:22 PM...I made it with ten onions...I thought it was very important to keep the depth of oil mentioned (3/4 inch).
This actually meant using a frightening amount of oil.
Probably nearly a litre.
The base seems good but no sign of the "taste"
... haven't added any chicken stock to it yet.

If I try this base, I will reduce the quantity of oil along with everything else, using a smaller pan so that the stuff being fried is at a similar level (deep fat frying vs. shallow frying) to the full 30-35 onions version, as far as one can tell.

There's no way I will ever believe that chicken stock adds 'the taste'. I use chicken stock quite frequently and it smells of...surprise, surprise...chicken...nothing like curry.

Yesterday, a delivery chap delivered a plastic carrier bag of what I assume to be an Indian take away to the house next door. I was ouside and he didn't come closer to 5 yards from where I was standing, as he walked quickly by. The familar BIR smell hit me first, quite strongly. Then I saw where it was coming from. I find this quite amazing. Whatever produces 'the smell' is so strong, it escapes between the tin cartons and lids, and out of a plastic bag held partly shut. 

Quote from: Mark J on May 20, 2005, 09:54 PM
The big question to my mind is that of scale, can you really just half all of the ingredients and try this kind of recipe? I don't know, is it just a case of halving all the spices & salt etc or should the spicing be kept the same??

I suggest you must reduce the spices and salt pro-rata with everything else. I simply cannot comprehend how any other approach would make sense.

Celery, carrots and chicken stock are very common ingredients in western soups, sauces and other dishes.

Does everyone agree that this latest 30 onion base has overtaken KD and Pete's 600ml oil version, amongst others as the very best version of a base sauce? I say 30 onions, but I would never make such a large quantity. I am confident that we could scale it down to, say, 5 onions, and still produce the very same flavour, texture and end result.

Quote from: thomashenry on May 18, 2005, 09:31 AM
I've made curry every night for the last month (really)

How much weight have you gained, if you don't mind me asking? I'd be concerned about salt and certain other factors too. Every visitor to this forum should be grateful to generous pioneers like you for putting so much effort into this quest. But, pray don't harm your health, let alone become a martyr, heaven forbid, in the process.