In a previous life I was a secondary school Industrial Arts, IT and Software Development teacher.  Also dabbled into Engineering Science, Physics, Chemistry and of course Mathematics.

I'm now just a cranky old man, which I much prefer.

DB:- I'm here to learn as much as I can.  I take everything in and absorb what suites me.  I am not a fan of artificial anything in food and as a rule I don't use colouring agents.  It was just a bit of a trial to see how it went.  I do understand where you are coming from though and thanks.

I've named this topic to assist others who have experienced the same problem as me, ie; finding a useful and informative discussion about pre-cooked meats in general, but specifically chicken.  I don't claim this to be my own work as I have used the work of others to reach this point.  Credit D. Toombs and some guy I can't find again.

edit: Here it is. http://www.indianrestaurantcooking.com/2013/10/27/how-to-cook-pre-cook-chicken/

In a different place I was told to just boil it in some water with a bit of base gravy thrown in.  Not very helpful and it turned out just how you'd expect. Dull and flavourless.  It wouldn't take on the flavours of the dish when used and it was a real waste of good chicken.

Doing some research the other day led me to some interesting video demonstrations from which I took notes on my observations.  There seems to be a divide over cooking in oil or water.  Having tried water and being disappointed I was curious to see the oil method.  I was surprised by one technique that really cooked the chicken for a long time and in spiced oil, but it was something to think about and I noted the ingredients used.

I then came across another method that used both oil and water and the end result looked really promising.  There were several similarities to the all oil version in technique and ingredients along with obvious differences. 

Being adventurous yesterday I made up something in between the two and even if I do say so myself, it turned out pretty damn good.  So here you go.  Livo's hybrid pre-cooked chicken.  I'll be glad to receive your feedback and tips to improvement.

Common ingredients between the 2 original methods.

1 kg of diced chicken pieces.  (I prefer large pieces of about 40 g each and you can cut smaller later)
Vegetable oil (all oil method used 1 cup and oil / water method used 3 Tbsp)
Green Cardamom pods ( oil method used 10, oil / water used 5)
Cassia Bark / Cinnamon (2" vs 1")
Asian Bay leaf (2 or 3) The size I have is huge so hard to say how many but I'd only use 1 of mine or less.
Salt (oil says 2 tsp and oil / water doesn't specify an amount.)
Tomatoes (oil says 6 tinned pealed, oil / water doesn't list them but tells to add in method.)

Ingredients listed only in the Oil method.
Star Anise 1 whole piece
Mix Powder 2 Tbsp
Garlic / Ginger Paste 2 Tbsp.

Ingredients listed only in the Oil / Water method.
Onions 2 lge finely chopped.
Black Peppercorns 10
Cumin Seeds 1 tsp
Tumeric 1 tsp.

So that is the list of ingredients from both methods.  Yesterday I used the Oil / Water technique but left out some of the ingredients and simplified it down to the basic commonly held ones.

For 300g of chicken I used:

1/2 an onion finely diced.
1 Tbsp of Tomato Puree.
1 tsp of Garlic / Ginger paste.
1 Green Cardamom Pod split open / crushed.
Tiny stick of Cassia Bark (approx. 1" by 1/4 ")
4 Black Peppercorns.
Pinch of Cumin Seeds.
1 Curry Leaf (I used this instead of Bay Leaf as it was in the ingredients list I was using).
1/4 tsp Mix Powder
1/4 tsp Tumeric
1/2 tsp Salt
1 Tbsp Oil.

Method.

Heat oil and add whole spices and leaf.
Add chopped onions and cook out, stirring. ( I did about 5 minutes)
Add Garlic / Ginger paste and a bit of salt, stirring.
Add Tomato, Tumeric and Mix Powder and cook briefly stirring.
Add the chicken pieces and stir thoroughly to coat well in seasoned onion / tomato mix.
Add enough water to just cover the chicken pieces and bring to heat.
Cover and cook for time required by your chicken size.
Remove from heat and cool.

I stored this in a dish with the cooking liquid but I guess you could drain it.  It was good enough to just eat it as it was, sort of like a chunky chicken broth Indian style.

No doubt you could use or omit any of these ingredients for slightly different results, but this worked well for me.
Please add you comments to improve, criticise, correct or take the P, as you see fit.

Cheers
Livo

Quote from: noble ox on September 17, 2014, 08:06 AM
Plenty of ladies on this forum look at all the korma and recipes for nans ;D ;D ;D

Well dress me up in a party frock and take me to the dance.  I like Korma and Nan.

Been asleep over here. To answer some of the points made.

Food colouring, as I said, is not something I ever do, other than very rarely in Tandoori Chicken.  I saw the video on a chef putting red food dye powder in the batch of Tomato Sauce and just thought I'd see how much liquid dye it would take to change the colour of a small dish.  Purely experimental and judging by the response here it won't be something I'll do too often in the future.  Also note that the photos you are referring to were cooked during the early evening and taken under artificial light, whereas the Book Version was made in the mid day under natural light.  This makes it seem much redder than it actually was.

JerryM:- The sauce from the Book Version eaten on it's own was delicious.  There was left over after I'd taken it out of the pan and into the takeaway foil tray so I ate it. Yum.

The ingredient list for both preps were exactly the same.
Fresh
300 grams Chicken Breast
3 Small onions (2 medium)
3 Tbsp Tomato Puree (not Paste)
1 tsp Garlic Paste
1 tsp Ginger Paste
1 Green Chilli (seeded and chopped finely)
Juice of 1 Fresh Lemon

Whole Spices  (only the curry leaves were called for in the original recipe list)
1 Green Cardamom Pod
Tiny piece of Cassia Bark (only 1" by 1/4")
4 or 5 Black Peppercorns
Pinch of cumin Seed
4 Curry Leaves  ( I'll have to check back on what I did to recall when I used these. You might see them show up in the pics.)

Powdered Spices
1 1/2 tsp ground Coriander
1 tsp Kashmiri Chilli powder ( I only used 1/2 tsp as I needed my family to try it)
1/4 tsp ground Fennel Seed
1/4 tsp Tumeric
large pinch ground fenugreek

Other
1 tsp Salt
300 ml Water
Vegetable Oil as required / preferred
Chopped Coriander leaves to garnish (optional)

Book Version  (dead easy / bordering on lazy)

Essentially the tomato puree, water, lemon juice and all the powdered spices are combined in a bowl and set aside.

Cut up the onion and fry in oil, adding the salt and G/G pastes part way through the cooking.  The original recipe here did not call for any whole spices but I put them in at the frying stage just so both dishes had all the exact same ingredients. I guess they should be fried off first to season the oil. I didn't as they were an afterthought part way through.

When the onion is done (clear) add the chicken pieces and fry off for 2 minutes to seal.

Add the tomato Puree mixture and stir through while bringing up to heat.

Cover and simmer for 8 - 10 minutes.

Garnish with chopped green chilli and coriander if used.

BIR Style  (required extra water for Base Gravy)

Note:- this version actually ended up with only about 1 full onion in the final dish as I did not use anywhere near the full amount of Base Gravy.  This probably explains why the Book Version is a more robust dish.

You should be able to follow the pictures.
I used 1/2 an onion and part of the tomato puree along with a bit of the salt, 1/2 the G/G paste and the whole spices, turmeric and mix powder to precook the chicken. Small amount of oil and water to cover.  This took about 20 minutes.

Link to pre-cooked chicken. https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13291.0.html#new

I used 2 whole onions to prepare a small batch of AP/JV Original Base Gravy, very thin.

I then used the remaining 1/2 onion, G/G paste, powdered spices and Tomato puree to Tarka.

Added spoon by spoon Base Gravy till I had what I thought was enough sauce in the pan.

Added the pre-cooked chicken and heated through.

Garnish and serve.

(note) judging by the above feedback, do not add RED PILLAR BOX colouring agent.

I'm not even sure this is "Balti".  The book in question describes Balti style as mild curries then gives recipes for "Balti Madras" and "Balti Vindaloo".

They just came straight up for me as soon as I posted them lc.

Just put a couple of drops of Pillar Box Red in it mate to experiment with colouring.  I never use food colour but thought I'd see how much it took to make a difference.  Plus the Rabbitoh's are Red and Green.
Red Chicken and Green chilli and coriander.

One of the videos I watched last night showed a guy making up his restaurant's Tomato sauce and he put red food colour in it, so everything that had the tomato sauce in it would be red.

Well that was fun.  As you'd expect, the two variations are different but I'd not like to say I prefer one over the other.  The Book Recipe is more robust and zingy, while the BIR is smoother and the different flavours come out more individually.  The chicken pieces in the BIR dish are juicier / more moist and have better flavour development as you'd expect by being pre-cooked.

The biggest advantage of the BIR style is that I only used a portion of the Base Gravy and there is enough left to do another 5 the same, so there you have good reason for the shops to do it that way.

As with most curries, I think they'll be even better tomorrow.  Either one is delicious and perfectly acceptable.  Next I'll do one using the Aussie method and compare that as well.

Now dinner is served.

BIR Style Finishing Off. (Part 2)

BIR Style Finishing off. (Part 1)