After watching my curry being cooked at my favourite T/A I was asking about their base gravy and the ingredients was no different to many of the gravy's on the forum but what he said has stuck in my mind '' If your gravy is not right your curry will not be '' make of this what you will but to me this seems quite an important statement.

Have made the C2G base twice now and my Chef's spoon is certainly larger than 2 tbs, although this seems heavy on the spicing this is going into 8 ltrs of base which is almost twice the amount compared to many of the base recipes on the forum and it doesn't taste overspiced - to me 

Nice follow on post Ray 
Your explanation of the ' Chef's Special ' is spot on, I would just add it was only Cardamom (green) ,Cloves,Bay leaf and star anise that brought out that wonderful flavour,also as I'm using the C2G base which is heavily spiced why would I need to use even more of the same spices in the main dish (spice mix)  for me it's just working out how to incorporate the aromatic spices into the curry the BIR way,hence the Garam Masala.

Quote from: spiceyokooko on January 15, 2012, 12:27 PM
There's a number of ways that the flavours from whole spices can be included in the final dish and I think a lot of BIR's do it via the precooking of the meat or principal ingredient. There's a number of 'pre-cook' recipes on here that include whole spices in them.

For me personally, I still have a bit of a problem with the term Garam Masala and the way it is now being used on here, it's starting to morph into something completely different and I know this has been discussed before, but it seems to keep coming up.

So now we've got the term Chef's Special Garam Masala to contend with. At what point does a Garam Masala stop being a Garam Masala and start being a Chef's Special Garam Masala? And how does that Spice Mix differ from any other Spice Mix if we don't know what the ingredients are?

There's some confusion here (and in my mind) of precisely what a Garam Masala is and what a Spice Mix is and the two terms now seem to be almost interchangeable. As far as I'm concerned, a Garam Masala is defined by it's principal ingredients and how it's used, but that doesn't appear to be the case any more

spicey, the term ' Chef's special' refers  to in this case a Garam Masala made up by the Chef himself,whether he roasts the whole spices and then grinds or from experience knows the better quality pre ground GM I don't know and spice mixes are generally differing amounts of the same spices,cumin,coriander,turmeric,curry powder,paprika,and sometimes a small amount of GM but it is Garam Masala that has all the  fragrant aromatic spices such as cardamom,cloves,bay,etc and it was these that gave me that wonderful savoury flavour.

Quote from: curryhell on January 15, 2012, 11:32 AM
97% now then ;D.  Well done emin-j.  You confirmed my suspicions at least about the inclusion of those particular whole spices.  It's just "in what form".  I'll try this with some base next time i make a curry before i extend it to the base itself.  Whether whole spices are used in the gravy, and we've all found them in our curries ,  or are prominent ingredients in a hand made "chef's special" garam masala, as suggested by ifindforu the use of Jalpur (or  another brand but with the chef adding spices to get that similar smell) is what we now need to confirm.  How many of threads based on real kitchen observations make reference to chef's special mix powder / garam masala?  Quite a few. Looking forward hearing of the work you're going to do in this area.  Could we have such a significant breakthrough so early in 2012?

CH, this is  a massive leap forward for me at least and has given me a definate direction to follow,I just couldn't work out how our local T/A could produce such a savoury flavour but with only light spicing  I went the 'add more and more spice mix ' root but that was a disaster and made a sickly cow pat of a curry 
Last nights curry was an absolute winner even the Mrs agreed it was the best curry I have made and she will tell you as it is 

Quote from: 976bar on January 15, 2012, 11:22 AM
Hi Emin,

I guess the way forward now is to probably experiment by making 2 dishes at the same time. Adding the GM to one and ground spice mix to the other with the "ground" spices in, and seeing which one takes your fancy the most

Good idea bar, I think I will make just the madras sauce for the experiment but I cant make my mind up whether to grind my own spices or use pre ground Rajah GM.

My mind is buzzing at the mo 
I am using C2G's base with the chef's spoons of the usual spices added, what if I used only Garam Masala in the final cooking stage ? makes sense to me,also ties in with the ' chef's own Garam Masala' as per my favourite T/A,
his 'spice mix' looked no different to Garam Masala (course ground texture) and definately nothing like any of the spice mixes from this site I have used.

Quote from: 976bar on January 15, 2012, 10:40 AM
Hi Emin,

Have you tried grinding those whole spices and adding them to your spice mix? might be worth a go......

Hi 976bar, that is the way I am thinking of going but the ingredients I used are the ones found in Garam Masala amongst others,could it be the quality of the gm you use (jalpur comes to mind  :)or could it be the amount or when it's added  I am so pleased to have found the holy grail I have been searching for,now just the final touches 

Thanks' Guys,
The whole spices is what gave our curry that wonderful savoury flavour and the house is still full of BIR aroma this morning  ;D
I really don't think there are many BIR's use whole spices as I did but more likely achieve the flavour through Garam Masala maybe their own ground spices or is it the amount of GM they use  but I do know it was the whole spices what gave me that wonderful savoury taste and aroma that I have been searching for quite a while and has given me a definate direction to follow at last.

edit: The whole spices could be being introduced at the final cooking stage via Garam Masala or chef's own spice mix    

For sometime now my curry's although good have been missing that savoury but not over spiced taste like my local BIR's,I have tried by gradually adding more and more spice mix to emulate their flavour but my curry's just ended up being over rich to the point of being sickly
The talk on the forum lately is of Jalpur Garam Masala (ifindforu) being a 'must have' plus the use of whole spices has been mentioned and I must admit to being a bit of a fan of Garam Masala and the wonderful flavours from using whole spices,and it got me thinking 
1, We had Indian neighbours a year or so ago and as I was parking my car on the drive I could smell the most wonderfull aroma BIR x2  I had to go around and ask what they were cooking,It turned out to be a Lamb curry from scratch and they offered me a taster straight out of the pan ! Kapow ! what a flavour, and that aroma,I asked what gave the flavour and aroma ' Garam Masala ' was the answer.

2, I once asked at my favourite T/A if I could watch my curry being made and to my surprise they said yes  ;D
one of the questions I asked was what spice mix they used and was told ' that is chef's own Garam Masala'
and it was said in such a way I didn't feel I should pry any more :-X but looking at the mix it looked like just GM coarse with no sign of turmeric etc etc and this is what went into all the curry's (maybe not korma).

So tonight I thought I would experiment with some whole spices and see what flavour I could bring out in the final curry.
Using from frozen 2 portions of C2G base,approx 600ml I placed the frozen base in a saucepan and put the gas on the lowest setting as it started to melt I added 3 green cardamom (crushed), 3 cloves, 3 Asian bay leaves (the fragrant variety) and half a star anise. After a while it was up to a simmer and the aroma was wafting around the house,bloody lovely 
Went on to making mine and the Wife's usual Madras and only using a teaspoon of spice mix (due to the whole spices in the base) and then tasting to check on salt level there it was  the most fantastic savoury tasting curry I have ever made and to be honest slightly too savoury but definitely the taste I have been missing and definitely the taste of most of the T/A in my area.
For me the search for the 'secret ingredient' is over but working out how BIR's get this much flavour into their curry's without using whole spices is my next challenge,are we back to that Garam masala thingy again   
Just try what I have said by adding the whole spices to your portions of base (not your main pot of base for now) but I cant stress enough you use the right bay leaves (fragrent Asian not the European rubbish).
Onward and upward