ScottyM,

an interesting recipe. i've been trying to make the tandoori version for long time without getting close.

i've either got a red patak tasteless version (you might even say close to BIR TA norm) or essentially a red "tikka"

do you have any details on how the 2 differ at the fav curry house

livo,

am sure like quite a few am very interested in your work and post replies don't reflect the interest.

will help where i can.

i do feel you have set a massive challenge for yourself.

if i gave the impression that Balti is all about the experience i must add clarification. the food is very different to BIR.

i think you are right in that most of this difference is down to the spice ie the base and cooking technique are not the game changers.

don't worry too much on thinness as its the finished consistency that is important - both BIR and Balti are similar with Balti having more sauce across most dishes - they need sauce to enable eating with the naan.

my current thought on the difference is that it is down to using gm in place of mix powder. i do think the base will be different but not hudge.

i have a very good book (100 Best Balti) which i've been inputting to spreadsheet to do similar to you. i can email it if you need (pm me). the data is in but not formatted well. i'm having a too busy year and most of my to do list has gone nowhere. if its any use to you in its basic form its yours.

i do think balti will keep you scratching your head. an example from my trip last xmas being i'd always thought of balti having less puree and would defo not have tandoori masala powder. both were wrong. it could be they have changed to meet their changing customers - i dont really know. the adil offering that i sampled was really spot on a 10. others have reported it poor. i know the kyber well which is a different restaurant. the food is different at both places yet the owners are know to each other (possible relatives). you would think this would make for the same but its not. balti in itself much like BIR is quite a wide variable.

make the adil balti using a normal base. do a garlic tarka in heavy pan (ideally karahi) and you should get a decent idea of what a steaming balti looks and tastes like.

Quote from: livo on October 18, 2014, 11:55 PM
What makes a balti a balti?

for me this is a few things - surprisingly nothing to do with taste

1) the naan bread is far better than BIR and mandatory - its sort of crisp and used to eat with (there is no rice)
2) the food coming in a smoking cast iron pot is well impressive
3) the ability to take your own drink (and pop ie family friendly)

Gav Iscon,

well pointed out on the mix powder not being used.

still cant get my head round it. the nearest base i've made is the ashoka which used many pastes to deliver the end product and made good the absence of mix.

Livo,

as noble ox says there is a lot posted on the subject. i think bengali bob's three balti is good start.

in very simple. BIR = indian Bangladeshi, Balti = Pakistani. it gets more complicated as Pakistani is also BIR with Balti a very small sub set.

Pakistani is found in a few concentrated areas in the UK. Bradford, Manchester to name 2.

in general i don't like the Pakistani version. i've never really worked out why. i dont like curry on the curry mile as i'm sure it is mainly Pakistani.

i think the difference is down to greater use of methi and probably use of gm in place of mix. i also think the base must be different. bengali bob i think in exploring balti is working on other potential differences of which stock is clearly a factor.

as for balti the dish or method of cooking has nothing to do with the difference. i in fact believe contrary to popular belief that balti is best cool fried not hot fried (which i use for BIR).

the trouble is many Indian BIR have attempted to copy Balti and now the waters are very muddy. the real McCoy though has not traveled outside Birmingham.

the type of naan bread is also a good indicator - balti is quite thin and sort of crispy. indian naan is soft and doughy.

there is a BBC lenny henry video i think on youtube that gives a real good overview. may even be link on this site.

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12060.msg96944.html#msg96944

have revisited this. the question on my mind was: does hot fry spice in oil produce better result than hot fry spice in free water.

the answer is that they produce the same result. the hot fry in oil is far quicker.

any thoughts or ideas for further experiment appreciated.

these were the detail conclusions:
Conclusions
1) use spoon side to fry spice in oil. Use flat for rest of fry
2) fry spices in oil until foaming stops typ 15 sec then quench watered Tom puree (adopted 11 secs)
2a) typ 20 sec toffee smell "almost burn"
3) quench fry off 1 chef base is good enough. If more Caramelisation needed Additional 2nd and 3rd fry off do help
4) no difference between hot fry spice in oil c/w base and or puree
5) ingredient proportions have far greater impact than fry method
6) toffee smell occurs after the spice aroma has gone and just before burn
7) black mustard seeds big no no - crunchy and bitter. Black cumin possibly ok but not a step improvement
8 ) water : puree of 3:1 makes 4 and 1 chef if use unit tbsp
9) passata worked better than blended tin toms

reference points:
1) chef at Zaman restaurant end point frying spices  "when nice smell is coming"
2) take "singe" as fry spices until they start to stick to the bottom of the pan. not sure where i got this from

many thanks for this video. i'm not in search for a base or changing my ways. however always love and appreciate efforts of a fellow curry fan. particularly when offering meaningful and useful info (not to belittle others or cause offense).

i noted down:
onion
cumin ??
water
cook high heat 2 hrs
veg oil
cook 30 mins
add spices etc:
) tom puree
) coconut cream
) chilli pwdr
) gm
) turmeric
) salt
cook 1 hr low heat
blend
9:44 shows texture
cook until oil floats
10:12 scum appears
leave to cool then blend again


interesting observations for me:
1) i've always blended twice but not left to cool 1st. will give it a try.
2) the initial water level was too high for me - say 3/4 tops, leaving lid off perhaps makes good
3) the thinness of the finished based suggests ali pan and low heat finish cook. would be very interesting follow up video showing a dish being cooked.

music was better on previous takes but thought the camera work exceptionally good. 10 for me.

just on personal note would appreciate reasons behind need for the "new" base

tried out the 100C cook. the oven ranged from 100 to 110C. cooked brisket for 6 hrs covered. added sliced onion base and 10 mm water cover.

am pretty sure i'm now sorted on slow cook temp at 100/110C. the meat did not dry out.

next step will be to go up to the 9 hrs cook.

for info the liquid cover on the 100/110 cook actually increased as liquid comes from the onion and the oven temp is not hot enough to force it to escape as steam. the cover remained at 25 mm all the way through.

amazingly the meat inside looked the same (dark ie cooked) as it does at 130C - no hint of pink. i'm hoping the increase in cooking from 6 to 9 hrs will yield a bit more melt in the mouth texture. the 100/110C 6 hr easily forked.

feel i'm almost there leaving the "blackening" for the lamb left "todo" either by increased oven temp at end (200C) or grill.

livo,

many thanks - a real eye opener. at least i now know i'm not mad.

not sure if i could go with such a colour which would be step change for me (and most of UK).

will try going down to 100C on the next go for sure. will keep ballpark 55C in the back of my mind for now.

ps agree on the difference - it was our butcher who had recommended brisket as what he believed an equal to lamb shoulder for slow cook. both taste really nice. just need to get the cooking optimized.

quite an eye opener the above posts.

i've clearly not had my blinkers off enough - going to try using it far more rather than chucking it.

would also say it really does last in the fridge - i'm over 12 months before ditching.

for anyone who's not tried it - well worth a purchase (now even if not solely intended for curry).

its quite a complex taste having sort of sour then sweet - best i can describe is one of those really nice cough or throat medicines.

it really does give a nice zing.