Yesterday, I made a basic lamb curry using the boned and spiced lamb shoulder, which I had pre-cooked on slow simmer for about an hour. I fried off a bit of onion and garlic in oil which had tej patta, cassia, clove and a black cardamom spicing, added the diced lamb in its own spices, briefly fried then followed with a bit of water and 1 ladle of the base gravy on simmer (lid on).  The curry itself was standard preparation with the addition of 1 TBSP of Mild Curry Paste and ended up being, once again, a delicious lamb curry.  I mixed some of the pre-cook liquid through and reduced it down as well.

Served alongside the Balti Chicken Shawarma from the previous night was telling. Although the chicken dish had improved from a day in the fridge, the lamb dish, with additional ingredients was far more enjoyable, as agreed by Mrs L.  This version of Birmingham Balti Chicken will not be investigated any further in my kitchen.  The gravy is a beauty.

Quote from: Kashmiri Bob on February 12, 2023, 12:42 PM

Yellow sticker Bernard Matthews?  Soz, couldn't help it 

This hypothetical base (with additions at the pan stage) will produce a fine and dandy curry. But, not a Birmingham Balti, which requires no further addition, to give sublime quality.  As I think Mick said, you won't want to make anything else.  I truly believe this.  It hits nail directly on head, which is why I don't want to see it going under the radar, passed off as just a good easy-to-make gravy, but nothing to rave about.

Markdown at Woolworths actually.

All I can say is that if this base, made to recipe, used as the be all and end all creates a Birmingham Balti, I wouldn't bother driving down the road to collect one.  I'm sorry if I upset anybody but it just doesn't do anything for me. It's a really good base gravy that can be used to create excellent curry, but it falls flat if used as intended.  I also think that in future I will be omitting the coriander and adding it at dish preparation.

This is now my 4th batch and my opinion has not changed from first impressions.

Mk1 Balti gravy made to spec (exactly), using brand new fresh spices, straight out of the packet and fresh garlic and ginger.  This is not botched in any way.
First dish on the cooker was Balti Shawarma Chicken w/ mushrooms.  I'm afraid I simply still do not get it.  Even with the additional spicing from the pre-marinated chicken breast, the predominant flavour of the dish is Coriander leaves.  Was it nice?  It was ok and I enjoyed it, but once again, had this been made with plain chicken breast, it would be dead boring.  It may be better tomorrow after a bit of aging.

The Shawarma chicken was 95% chicken breast fillet, Shawarma style rub (5%) Spices (Cumin, Turmeric, Paprika, Coriander seed, Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Chilli, Black Pepper) Garlic, Salt, Onion, Corn Starch, Rice Flour, Herbs (Coriander, Parsley).

I'll try another chicken dish tomorrow using my Balti paste and I have some boned and Indian style marinated lamb leg.  Again, I rate this gravy as a "Base Gravy".  It just does nothing for me when used alone.

Already explained Santa, although I'm not sure it would contribute that much and completely alter the gravy.  KB has explained that his Star Anise and Green Cardies were a bit on the older / possibly stale side.  It is something that could definitely affect the level of flavour provided within the boil / simmer process, but would it cause a batch to be considered botched?  Possible I suppose.  If in doubt of the quality of those spices I would have upped the quantity.  If you were about to toss them anyway, why not just use heaps?  He did also say that he took his eye off the ball so that could do it.

With green cardamom in particular, it is very difficult to obtain really fresh specimens over here.  I see photos of really bright green pods and I can assure you they are nothing like the dull straw-coloured ones we get over here.  Well, they're not that bad, but they certainly aren't the bright green of super fresh and they don't take long in the cupboard to turn to a very unappealing looking specimen.  Star Anise, in my experience, is a very stable spice anyway so I would have far less concern with it.  If in doubt use double or break it up into smaller pieces.

I went out and bought fresh Cassia Bark after my first batch and it made zero difference that I could tell.  Are super fresh spices better?  Of course they are. Will using slightly older spices radically affect the outcome in a base gravy?  I'm sceptical, and as I said, just up the quantity if you're in doubt.  However, that said, if you're relying on the spicing of the gravy to flavour the entire dish, as is the case here, it may well be a contributing factor.

Thanks KB.  I for one will be interested to read about where you think you messed up on your last batch.  I haven't cooked a curry in a while as I've been enjoying the fresh seafood that summer brings to us. Over the last few weeks, the Woolworths Supermarket closest to my home has been selling short-dated Crystal Bay Prawns at absolute bargain prices.  They have been marked down to half-price and better which is not too much higher than I was paying for good prawns 30 years ago.  Consequently, I've been gorging on them and good fish.  As well as that I've been working on my smoked brisket beef and short ribs, Texas BBQ style. 

However, it is about time to do another gravy and give it another bash.  My family has had a long enough break away from it.

The years roll by very quickly and this year marks 4 years since I did my last bulk cook for my wife's work and her focus country of study is once again India.  So, this year when I do the food preparation for Indian food day for her, I will be using this base.  It will be very interesting to see how it goes in a bulk preparation.  I'll need to do a few trial runs to ensure I've got it and the dishes working properly.

I doubt that CH botched his MkII gravy.  It really isn't that hard and even the MkI version is no big deal.  The gravy does have aspects that are outside what you might expect from a very "normal" BIR base gravy, but essentially it is a base gravy, and it is a really good one.  I've made far more complicated base gravy and Hotel Style gravies than this one.

On the subject of the basic Balti Chicken being bland, for mine, it was never the intention to imply that the dish was bad.  It wasn't. I enjoyed it and I cooked it more than once.  I just found that compared to the usual depth of flavour and richness that I'd come to expect from standard BIR dishes, and curry in general, it just lacked that oomph. This was very easily remedied and the resulting dishes with additional flavouring were excellent.  This is why it will most likely become my go to base gravy from now on.  It really works.

Now, we also have CH in this instance, who has not experienced the real deal as sold in the triangle.  For myself, Santa and now CH, who have not tried an Al Frash Balti other than self-prepared, it is hard to judge if it is close to the target or not.  If you say it is Rob (and Mick of course), and we aren't botching it, then I just don't think I understand the fuss about it.  If I went to Birmingham and had it, would I enjoy it?  I'd hope so.

Ah!! Phew.  It's good to be back.

Quote from: Kashmiri Bob on February 09, 2023, 03:35 PM
This sounds familiar. I managed to lock myself out of the forum a while back. Changing my email address did it.  I was out for several weeks.  There are various ways to contact admin on the CRO front page, none of which work, I found.  There is even an email address for CRO.  I tried this, got an "undeliverable" reply.  Re-registering with a different username not possible either  I eventually found contact details for some members and thanks to them managed to let admin know, who sorted it out really quickly.  Looks like it is still glitchy.  Needs sorting out really.  I guess potentially this could account for why no new members have joined for a long time

We miss you livo!  Don't worry, hopefully you will be back on soon.

Rob

That's exactly what I had to do. I needed to change email addresses on over 100 online accounts after foolishly using an email domain linked to an ISP for over 20 years. Eventually cutting ties with that ISP means my family will shortly lose access to our email addresses. Boy, what a pain!

I don't know what happened but, I was not receiving authentication emails to the new address, and all attempts to re-send confirmation emails or reset passwords was taking me around in circles.  There was nothing I could find anywhere as an outsider to contact anyone inside. Luckily, I found an email from last year sent by Uncle Frank and I remembered that Phil had posted a comment on YouTube (Syed's channel).

A shout out as well to Romain who contacted me only days ago to see if the site was gone for good.  It was gone for me for at least 10 days I think.

You guys all agreed to help by getting my message through to Onions, so big thanks to all of you.

I twice attempted to create a new account using different email addresses that had never been used on CRO, and both failed.  I noticed that the last new member was nearly 8 months ago.

I also know that Rik, aka The Backyard Chef (Loveitspicy on CRO), gave up after he too was unable to get back in about 2 years ago.

Quote from: Onions on February 09, 2023, 03:00 PM
@Livo: I've just tried something. Try and login with your new email. Not guaranteeing anything, but it's worth a go.

I'm here. Thank you. It could well have been my own fault and then the site was down as well. Anyway, it's good now.  Thanks to Uncle Frank, Romain, Onions, Yousef, Phil and anybody else who has helped sort me out.

So how did it go curryhell? 

On the tomato question, I'd say it doesn't really matter other than to mention that canned tomatoes may be more flavoursome than fresh depending on the type and quality of either.  There's good and bad in both.  It's the same thing when using paste / puree / passata.  I just use what I have on hand and never bother too much about subtle differences.  They obviously exist but I can't say I've ever been capable of saying any dish would have been better or worse from this.

Quote from: Secret Santa on January 06, 2023, 03:36 PM
curryhell it'll be interesting to hear your feedback on MDB's balti base and the basic chicken balti ... I assume you'll be doing that first? As you've not had authentic balti I want to know if you find it bland like I did.

+1

As both Santa and I (plus Mrs L) found the balti bland, but we both found the base to be very good for other dishes, it will be very interesting to know your take on it.  It's a shame that others have not bothered to try it.  There are members who have actually eaten Birmingham Balti Chicken and their input would have been of value. A reduced quantity of gravy, a single chicken breast and a handful of coriander would answer many questions.