Don't forget the pics tonight Chris.

Thanks Jerry, I don't mind playing about and don't mind getting it wrong.

Recommendation is always a good thing but funnily, I was initially going to do CA's but as I had tried his Seekh I thought i'd tried someone else's. I might just have another go tonight.

Chris, i've had a thought about the yellow colour in the bhaji. Based on my discovery of the Panch Puran, I notice it duplicates my ingredients. There is, however, one difference and that is Yellow Mustard seeds as opposed to my black mustard seeds.

This would surely give a yellow appearance to the mix. I know intend to review Panch Puran in its make up and apply this somehow, to my recipe. Swapping Black for Yellow will be the start.  Looking forward to next week though.

Good luck with the Bhaji tonight.

I Googled the 'Guam moori' and interestingly I was close to the spelling which appeared as Guamoori. It is fennel as I understand, the seeds at the restaurant were generally slightly smaller than the seeds I have in my cupboard. This could be due to cultivation methods or a variant of the Fennel plant but for all intents and purposes, it is Fennel.

I really couldn't say what has been added to the tomato puree, but the look and consistency now I think of it, really was more like tomato ketchup. It was the colour that struck me, you could almost sense the flavour oozing through it.

One thing I forgot to add, I asked specifically about the adding of tomato to the base and the answer was no. This is when I was shown the tomato puree.

The Panch Puran is an interesting find and rather gratifying as the ingredients of which, I have put in my Onion Bhaji recipe. 1 tub fives spices, I wonder how many other tubs contain mixtures.

Certainly from what I have seen, I believe there are several key components that enable the restaurant to broaden their menu. I will leave you with this opening comment by the cousin when asked about the sauce initially:

"We have a big menu with many different dishes. The sauce enables us to cook a wide range of products but it is only one small part as we add individual spices to make the different dishes"

PINK FLOYD - Is there anybody out there?

The 5 spice is what it was but it didn't seem to have Fenugreek seeds in it. I will get a second chance to find out next week as I have been invited back to see them make onion bhaji from scratch.

I couldn't possibly guess what as in the puree though it looked more like a tub of red paint than anything else. I know that sounds odd but that's what it looked like. Absolutely no granular texture what so ever.

I think he was more shocked that I wanted to learn how to cook BIR. I did explain that that it was more specific dishes I was interested in but the fact I had enjoyed his restaurant so many times, I wanted to at least how it was done.

As for the spice mix, I am only guessing at what was actually there. Other similar coloured spices were on he table. But like Aladin in his cave, my eyes were everywhere.

More to follow hopefully.

Chris,

As part of my visit today which i'm sure you'll read with interest. I have been offered the opportunity to visit my local next week to watch as they prepare over 200 Onion Bhaji.

If this doesn't shed some light on our quest, i'll be mortified.

Regards,

Malc.

Peter, I think we are of the same mind here just looking at the subject from different sides of the room.

Almost disturbingly coincidental, I have taken a phone call this morning from my local, here at work (we supply them certain things). This then turned into a trip to the restaurant.

During the course of my visit, I was able to ask questions to both the owner and his cousin, get close to the stock and have a look at what they put into it.

During my conversation several things became clear. Firstly, they have a passion about their cooking and were very happy to talk food. But it was clear that the language barrier was going to be a problem as much as they admitted, they didn't know the English Terms for many of the ingredients.

By far though, the greatest passion they had was trying to educate me that cooking BIR is not the way to cook curry. Time and again, this was mentioned and time and again I was offered to see how a 'real' curry is made.

Perhaps both of these and the odd pause to talk in Bangladeshi with each other, was why I felt they were being cautious of my reasons to ask. But I also felt that they honestly did not know all of the answers. Perhaps these are the simple reasons that I feel everything is shrouded in mystery.

Obesrvations

Spice Mix
On entering the kitchen I made several observations firstly, they had more than one spice mix. two larger containers held two very different mixes one with an orange/red appearance with traces of dark spice within it and the other a much lighter yellow/orange colour. There was also salt, sugar, what looked to be coconut powder and and 1 or 2 others.

Stock
This is where I now have to admit that I have been wrong to call it stock. Infact, my original observations (from some years ago) must have been wrong entirely. What was indeed in front of me was a pale yellow sauce which clearly wasn't translucent. On top lay a film of what I can only describe as oil and skin. Its consistency was that of say a Heinz tomato soup.

Out of View
I didn't think to look under the main prep table but during our discussions, I was shown from underneath an ice cream tub full of what was explained to be tomato puree. Clearly it was not just puree. It had a very smooth texture and a rich red colour. Traces of deep red oil were trying to gather at the edges of the tub and I could see that something was submerged within it, probably garlic cloves from what I could tell.

Discussions

This really is in two parts because the spice mix deserves its own mention. This is as it was explained but does not provide the full picture i'm afraid. Fortunately though, I have been invited to see the gravy made from start to finish, which I intend to do.

Gravy Main
The bulk as we know is onion roughly chopped the process was described: Using about 40lbof onion (this seems like alot) add to pan with a little water and soften, then add a mixture of ginger, garlic and green chilli that has been crushed, about 2 table spoons and again along with green peppers and soften. Top up with water and cook for 2 1/2 hours. Blend the mix thoroughly and then add the spice mix. It gets quite vague here as he wanted to talk 'real' curry and I wanted to press on with the procedure. Sadly that's as far as we got.

Gravy Spice Mix
He lead me to 'the shelf' where bestowed upon it rested an assortment of spices. Some usual suspects and some not so. I was told that all of these were used to create the gravy mix. Among these were Cinnamon, Coriander, Bay Leaf, after that it got a little more involved. Firstly he mentioned Jeera regular seeds as you would expect but also Black Jeera. Then there was what he called Aniseed which is not star anise but a seed similar to fennel but smaller they call something like 'guam moori'. Then a mix of spices they referred to as Punch Puron. This actually contained a mix of spices essentially this is where the normal Jeera was but also with black and yellow mustard seeds as well as onion seeds and possibly others.

Conclusion

I was wrong about the stock, which is a relief in a way as it obviously challenges almost everything I have read on here. There are quite a few spices involved in the gravy alone and more than one spice mix is used, as well as at least one other shortcut procedure, the tomato puree mix.

I will report back with more when I finally get the chance to watch the sauce made from start to finish.

Thanks for reading.

Thanks Chris,

I didn't have time to twice cook last night as it was purely done off the cuff. I actaully got my batter slightly wrong last night, putting a little too much yoghurt in it was still sticky but not as much. so I made sue I made a thin bhaji and fried in a shallow pan, forcing the spoon into the middle of the batter to break and pull a little.

These are very close to the mark but as we both know, perfection is a challenger in the world of Onion Bhaji.

I look forward to your write up.

Quote from: peterandjen on March 19, 2010, 09:51 AM
i dont think i want to spend a week in the kitchen making 5 different stocks for 5 different end dishes.

As long as you have a tasty but fairly underpowering stock(spice wise) i dont think you can go too far wrong.

I don't disagree with your thinking and agree. But I do know that commercially, there are always several processed short cuts that enable restaurants to produce good reliable food quickly.

Reading here about the 'base' and then the 'spice mix' all makes sense and produces great results. But almost everyone says something is missing. Could that be another processed short cut?

Someone has mentioned about the canned tomato being processed with spices, which seems logical and that then means I don't need tomato in my base or as I would call stock.

Hypothetically, I then have three key processed short cuts that enable me to create a variety of dishes all with almost unique flavour, just by varying the amounts. Add in individual components and bingo.

I may be completely wide of the mark here, but I feel it is worth discussing. Especially as it appears that no-one has yet found the answers. Surely thinking outside of the box is worth a little time and effort.

I suppose the real question is, are we trying to create and replicate a BIR dish in its entirety or a dish that is just as enjoyable but made at home?

SS, being a lover of the milder dishes I used to have Korma quite regularly. My tastes have changed over the years and I now choose less sweet more savoury dishes.
However, I do enjoy a Korma ever now and then.

When ever the wife and I have chosen to frequent a restaurant or TA, I always judge it on its ability to cook a good korma. If it creates a dish that is runny, very pale in colour and without any real substance, it fails me. Sadly, most Korma dishes I try are like this in way shape or another and by your comments, I suspect it is the same for you too.

If I ever find out the secret which i'm sure starts here with the stock question, you will be the first to know.

CA, your quite in your comments it was a pure fantasy of a mix but the Fenugreek wasn't in place of the curry powder it should have read powder instead of leaf, my mistake.

Whilst the dish didn't turn out as planned it was ok. What it has done though, is given me ideas for another dish.

The thing is, I realised almost straight away whilst putting it together that it wouldn't be a Tikka so thought i'd play with it to see what I could get. You can't accuse me of not being experimental.