Mridula Baljekar in her book Real Fast Indian Food does an excellent Masala Chicken Livers recipe, it's well worth trying. Quick and easy and very tasty.

Your bhuna recipe here is interesting though.

Quote from: natterjak on March 18, 2013, 09:25 PMAre you just trolling, or did you have a point to make? You know your posting style seems awfully familiar but I can't place it...  Have you previously posted under another name?

I simply expressed my personal opinion, which as I understand it is my prerogative to do on an open forum given the subject was on topic. Or are you suggesting I'm not entitled to an opinion on this?

I thought I made it crystal clear what my point was and I thought I communicated it fairly concisely. However as you seem to feel there's some ambiguity there, let me reiterate it and make it clearer for you.

I think this guy is full of crap. I think he's picked up a few neat tricks from a BIR chef he's matey with and now thinks he's the dogs gonads to all things BIR cookery and is now going to teach all us failed BIR cook wannabee's where we've all been going wrong all these 30 odd years.

Is that clearer?

And to assuage your curiosity I've been posting with this nickname since I've been here, I've never used any other.

Quote from: natterjak on March 18, 2013, 09:25 PMOn the subject of Chris's book, why not wait for it to arrive then judge him on what he produces?  Seems like the fair way to go about things. Or were you just looking to start an argument?

Yes, we're all waiting with baited breath for it, for some time. Where is it? Until he comes up with something of substance, which he hasn't yet done, I really don't think he can strut around here claiming he has all the answers, do you?

It's becoming a tad tiresome.

Have a look at the ginger/garlic thread. In his words '...I just want to find out how much you know...? :

Quote from: kbmason79 on March 18, 2013, 04:33 PM
If I am correct in my thinking to achieve an authentic BIR curry at home will require you to cook at very high temperatures that can't be reached by normal domestic gas rings.

As you can probably see from this thread alone, opinion is somewhat split on this. There are those who believe it's necessary and those who don't. Why two very different opinions?

Simple. Two different sets of taste buds and two different sets of standards.

What is true, is that if you don't understand the correct cooking techniques and use the right ingredients, you won't achieve the right results - high temperature burner or not. So that's the best place to start.

However, for those who can cook with the right technique and right ingredients, the last piece of the jigsaw is in a high heat burner which produces a smokey flavour that cannot be achieved by any other means. That's not supposition on my part (regardless of what others in this thread might say) search the forum for threads on smokey and high heat for proof of this.

The major difference between BIR's and home cooks is the gas flames they cook on and the frequent ignition of the oil vapours coming off the pan. BIR's use the same ingredients home cooks do.

Just look at the gas flames and jets on a typical BIR burner and then look at the same thing on a home burner - they're miles apart and it makes a difference to the final flavour and taste of the dish.

Quote from: Garabi Army on March 18, 2013, 08:01 PM
When I arrived home and unpacked the box in the kitchen the aroma was spot on, it smelled just like a delivery from our local BIR restaurant. I know my comments will be treated with cynicism by some, I can understand that...

Indeed.

Achieving a very BIR smell and aroma is not that hard, many people on here already do it. When people come to my house the day after I've been cooking BIR Food they all complain my house stinks like an Indian Takeaway - it's not that hard.

Many people have been on here claiming the same thing, many who've worked in BIR's, many who've worked in the industry, well respected people like Khris Dillon and Bruce Edwards who have far more experience of this than Chris does and they've all failed to produce the breakthrough we've all searched for.

Many people on here have been working at this for 30 odd years or more.

This guy so far has come up with jack shit.

Only the other day I was reading a post from him where he was claiming that high heat was the answer, then the next minute it wasn't - the guy's full of crap.

I'll say this to him - put up or shut up.

However, I'm man enough to stick my hand up and admit I'm wrong if and when, but only if and when he comes up with the goods, until then, he's full of crap as far as I'm concerned and won't reveal anything to most people here over and above what they already know.

Base sauce, spiced oil, mix powder?  :

Quote from: failsafe on March 18, 2013, 07:42 PMThis maybe a big ask but could anyone supply me with ans essential ist of spices/herbs i would need for most of the curry's posted on here, please??

Hmm essential.

This would be on my list:

Ground

Turmeric
Coriander
Cumin
Paprika
Chilli powder (which one would be up for discussion)
Fenugreek
A Mild Madras Curry powder

Less essential but handy

Garlic
Ginger

Whole Spices

Cassia bark
Indian Bay leaves
Green Cardamons
Cloves
Kasoori Methi (dried Fenugreek leaves)

Less essential but handy:

Cumin seeds
Coriander seeds
Fenugreek seeds
Fennel
Star Anise
Black Cardamon

Those are the ones that spring to mind at the moment, no doubt I've left something out

I generally buy most ground spices in 100g bags for the simple reason of freshness, the only one I'd consider getting a larger bag of would be turmeric, simply because turmeric gets used a lot. Once a packet of ground spices is opened, you're ticking down their freshness and they don't stay fresh for long and should be used ideally within 1-2 months.

Whole spices are slightly different in the sense that they don't go stale as fast as ground so I tend to buy larger bags of them, particularly cassia bark, coriander and cumin seeds. The others generally smaller 100g bags.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on March 17, 2013, 08:52 PM
I knew when I read this that I had read something similar a long time ago;

Bingo!

Another piece of the jigsaw drops into place and moves us all on a little bit further.

Good detective work sherlock

Quote from: RubyDoo on March 17, 2013, 08:09 PMYes but we don't want acceptable curries. We want better than acceptable surely.

Umm, yes we do. But, and it's a big but, how do you define acceptable and at what point does over-spicing (a common practice) degrade the taste and flavour of a dish and at what point does simplicity start to improve it?

Phil I think is referring to my recent comment regarding Bruce Edward's assertion and I made it with respect to Saag Bhaji, which can be made quite simply with just turmeric , salt and pepper. Simple spicing, but surprisingly good result and somewhat better than 'acceptable'.

Personally, I prefer to make Saag bhaji with 1/2 tsp of mix powder, salt and a chef spoon of base sauce, but you don't have to make it with those ingredients and many here produce pretty good results with simpler ingredients.

It's important also to remember I think that most generic curry powders contain large quantities of turmeric in them which is by far the largest single component, which makes it a pretty important spice in Indian flavouring. No surprise then that most mix powders seem to follow that rule too, which does rather suggest that other spice components play a smaller role in the flavouring.

BE's comment I think highlights that you can make an acceptable curry dish without any other spice other than turmeric, salt and pepper, but you probably couldn't make an acceptable one without turmeric.

Quote from: JerryM on March 17, 2013, 06:24 PMa) look at current recipes for what it is that gives them their character

That's pretty much where I would start from. Take Rogan Josh as a random example, I'd take a look at a very wide variety of traditional recipes for this dish and look closely at the common component parts of it, but I'd also look at the uncommon parts too as well as making a few of the dishes and tasting them and go from there. Unfortunately it's going to a long slow process!

Quote from: JerryM on March 17, 2013, 06:24 PM...today there are a lot of duffers yet some have really improved and produce this "best" curry. alas they are few and far between. the price that they charge is not a measure of the success in fact more than often than not the opposite.

Indeed.

But that simply proves that some current BIR's have maintained their standards, they may be long running restaurants that have not adopted new ways of doing things, cut corners etc or they may simply have long standing experienced owner/chefs who control all the cooking.

Standards and quality in restaurants vary considerably across all sectors it's not just restricted to BIR's. You get good, bad and average restaurants serving up all variety of country cuisines.

Just because the vast majority of BIR's have adopted streamlined ways of doing things doesn't automatically mean they all have.

Let's face it, you can a good and bad Indian dish from the same restaurant depending on what time of the day or day of the week you've gone in to get it!

Quote from: Derek Dansak on March 17, 2013, 05:51 PMso i am not convinced its all down to expenses.

Hmm.

Does it taste like a Madras from 30-40 years ago though?

There were several interesting aspects to that Video, not least of which was the pan which looked a lot like either a cast iron pan or a seasoned steel one, but it wasn't a standard aluminium one. Also that the cooking stove and tandoori were right at the front counter and not hidden away.