I think that one of the biggest flaws in some of the previous reporting of TA/Restaurant recipes is using time as a metric for cooking.

A home range will NOT achieve the same results in the same time as a restaurant.  Now, if the recipe is substantially scaled it might be possible to get somewhat close.  But just like cooking anything to temperature instead of time, I think relying on the tastes and visual clues is bringing us closer to results that are the same as the TA.  Eventually it is possible to standardize the recipe back to time-based format with enough experience in a new environment (different range, different pot, different size, etc.).

Quote from: jb on July 24, 2014, 10:06 AM
I can remember when the use of fruit cocktail or fruit in general in massala paste was first mentioned on this forum and the uproar it caused,this chef uses it without a doubt.

This right here says a lot - when I saw it come up again in your post, I thought "This is something I haven't tried, and my CTM isn't right yet.  It is definitely worth a go."  The biggest thing I've learned about ALL restaurant cooking is that there are some really unexpected things that are done, especially in ethnic foods, that ruin the magic of authenticity or rare ingredients, and explain why you never would have got the recipe right if you hadn't seen it firsthand, because it most definitely deviates from any traditional version of a recipe out there.  I think this honestly could be one of those things, and I am excited to see where it takes me and the resulting dishes.

Quote from: noble ox on July 24, 2014, 05:53 PM
I made this base this morning it reminded me of the Glasgow base to begin with, when finished it was a huge step up the league...very Bir I will knock up a vindaloo later using  it and report the result
So far the best base I have made .....got my tail -wagging  ;D

This is incredibly encouraging - I was going to make another base as an experiment, but I think I'm being sold here to also try this.  I had a lot of success with the Glasgow base, and then an improvement with a clone-base.

Jb, questions for you - can you post the recipe to make the Chicken Curry?  I'd like to have a dish that pairs with this base to use as a first test and I'm not sure if I'll get around to making the massala paste quite so soon.  Also, did you get any hints at their mix powder, or maybe have a suggestion for which one might be closest for the time being?  I'm almost out of my present batch, so I'm trying to decide what I should be making!

Thanks again for your generous sharing of all this excellent information!

Quote from: Secret Santa on July 23, 2014, 10:30 PM
Veg ghee or butter ghee? If you get the chance can you ask them why they do it this way and if it's veg ghee why do they think they need it? Cheers.

My view on the entire veg ghee debate is texture, richness, and mouth feel.  Both coconut and palm have saturated vegetable fats (which are heart healthy).  These mimic the texture and feel of animal fats and most definitely are distinct from other veg oils in their effects.  I've done extensive amounts of vegetarian and vegan cooking, and I can say with certainty that it is possible to mimic animal fats using these substances.

Veg Ghee will mimic the richness found in real butter ghee, but at a substantially reduced cost, hence why it is used by many takeaways and restaurants.  I use Veg Ghee when I make my dishes and while not slap-you-in-the-face prominent in the final dish, it definitely makes a noticeable difference.

Few questions.

Any idea what size/weight can of fruit cocktail?

Coleman's dry or prepared mustard?

Size of Almond Powder packet?

Thanks so much for your generous posting of these recipes!  Looking forward to giving them a try.

Wow, those dishes look excellent!!  Thanks for posting the recipe for the base.  Looking forward to the paste (and the recipes/cook process for those dishes?).

I have a couple of revelations that following this topic has brought.  Maybe they are meaningless, but I think your comments about the base being similar to others ingredient-wise but producing very different results has maybe hit the nail on the head as to the elephant in the room.

It would be very interesting to know just how much additional water is added after finishing the cook process.  The water:base ratio and specifics of the cooking process regarding the onions may play a part in CREATING the flavor (as Chris used to say).  A number of gravies I have made look like the undiluted version above, but I've never substantially diluted them!  I seriously wonder if the dilution plus the cooking process produces some of the flavor which doesn't occur when too much base is present.  Said another way, the added water allows the gravy to cook longer in the pan, the additional reduction and caramelization producing some of the smell and finished dish flavor from the extended cooking and mellowing of the spices. 

Additionally, the finished dish, since the gravy is diluted, will end up having less base as a percentage of its content than if used undiluted in the same measurements, and a number of things I've learned in cooking is that sometimes less is more.  The spices and individual dish components will shine through more since there is less overall onion/base as a percentage of the dish.  That could be part of what makes these takeaway dishes taste differently than many cooked at home is a lack of proportionality that muddies the waters too much.

Do some places use a bhagar?  Absolutely.  Does it make or break a BIR curry - No.  Does it get certain folks closer to THEIR ideal taste?  Yes.  It should be possible to make a curry with the "magic" regardless of what set of restaurant items are being used.  And I think there are still techniques being unearthed which will eventually result in this being possible across a large span of base/mix powder/recipes!

Came back to haunt this thread again after some time.  Now have made a few batches of Samosas (usually go big and freeze them as they reheat beautifully).  I am curious what if anything those of you getting the crazy blistering have changed - hotter oil / thinner pastry / different oil?  Just curious as that is still more elusive than I'd like it.

Otherwise I'm THRILLED - definitely up there with some of the best I've had.
Often served up with spicy raw onion (chili powder, vinegar, tomato paste mixture) and my favorite, Green (Coriander leaf & mint Chutney).  The green chutney goes beautifully with the samosas, but I'm not sure if any BIRs have it or if it is just found here in the States.

I think I'm going to have to try making some Bhajis next!

Gave the recipe a go over the weekend - making two fillings (one traditional and one takeaway style).  The pastry used ajwain seeds as is common in some of the samosas we've had here in the states.

The samosas tasted great - far better than anything I've made in the past - and the pastry was spot on.  The only disparate thing that I'd like to ask about is why mine don't have nearly the same blistering as the original picture - any thoughts (pastry thickness - consistency - oil temp - etc)?  If it matters I used veg ghee in the pastry instead of oil but I would think that could only make it richer tasting.

I'd really like to be able to nail the surface appearance - as the assembly progressed they kept looking better and better.  The batch on the right side (takeaway style) are a lot cleaner looking than some on the left.

So any thoughts on the blistering?  More pre-cook for the pasty in the pan?

Excellent!  Looks like I should set aside time to make a batch or two of samosas this weekend!

Without the bubbled pastry it just isn't the same - have tried many frozen brands but only one here in the states that I've found has anything close to the right pastry and they aren't exactly cheap!

Quote from: MushroomMike on November 08, 2013, 12:23 AM
I like to put a teaspoon of ajwain seeds in my samosa dough. It gives them that extra "something". 

I've actually seen this in a number of the (good) prepared samosas I've bought as well as some of the restaurant ones here in the states.  I definitely think it adds a nice touch.