Hi JerryM,
The spice trials are interesting (2008 !)
I have had my best results  by frying the G/G then removing pan from heat and adding 3 tbsp thinned tom paste and then add 2 tsps of spice mix and 2 tsps kashmiri chili, this gives enough liquid in the frying pan to be able to fry the spices well without burning and I can fry to almost a dry pan without any burning,I then add the first ladle of base and everything blends together.
This was unlike the chef at our favourite T/A who after frying G/G fried the spices for at the most 20 seconds then immediately added tom paste (thinned) stirred for a few seconds and then added first ladle of base.
The gas flame was the full width of the pan but was a lazy flame and the whole process was very casual.

Quote from: JerryM on March 13, 2012, 06:04 PM
emin-j,

Quotewhole spice "chef garam" and veg ghee (re ashoka) are key ingredients in the base.

i use 1 tsp of chef garam per 800g onion and 30ml v.ghee in same. i do this for all bases. more ghee can be added and improves the effect - too much though is no good.

i've tried frying in v.ghee and don't like it compared to reclaimed oil.

You kept that quiet JerryM !
I think I will be using 1 chef's spoon of veg ghee in my next base (6ltrs) for a starting point although not too happy about using it ..
The wife did comment on why my curry's seem oily compared to the T/A ,that could because they use ghee ?

Quote from: Salvador Dhali on March 12, 2012, 08:26 PM
@emin-j: I believe whole spices in the base is definitely the way forward (spiced water or other) but working out how much of each to put in could be a bit hit and miss

For what it's worth I've always used whole spices in my base (added after blending for the second cooking stage).

I don't go mad. I'll chuck in some green cardamoms, Asian bay leaves, and cassia bark*, as these are relatively mellow and just provide a subtle undertone.

It's not going to dramatically change anything or gift you that BIR flavour - as we know that comes from technique - but it's another little layer that adds something to the mix, which is all to the good.

*I can't quote precise quantities as I tend to change them depending on how I'm feeling, the base and the amount I'm making, but for a 3L base I'd say you can't got too far wrong with around 8 green cardamoms, 3 Asian bay leaves and a 4-inch piece of cassia. But as with all things BIR, as Chewy says it's freestyle cookery so experiment and find out what suits you, your base and and your palate.

Hi SD,
I'll have to take a guess on the whole spices when making my next base probably working something out on the amount of portions I get from the base,in my last base I used the spiced water method but the spices didn't really come through so next time I'll blitz the whole spices along with the rest of the ingredients,cant see any reason why not 

Quote from: natterjak on March 12, 2012, 08:18 PM
Emin-j

Have you tried sieving your base? See chewy's base sauce videos for details. I was sceptical and never bothered with it for a long time but having tried it for the first time I'm delighted with the improvement in the smoothness of the texture of my curries. Give it a try - just a standard fine sieve and use the back of a spoon to press the base though. It might be the silky look your family are expecting to see.

Hi natterjak,
that sounds a bit extreme to me and I cant see many BIR's doing that nowadays but if it works for you - great 
I have started putting the base through my Mr's Kenwood jug blender this makes it like milk and definitely better than just using my stick blender,looking at the outboard motors the BIR's use no wonder theirs is smooth  but I do wonder if this silky sheen could be from the veg ghee - ill find out on Saturday 

Quote from: ELW on March 12, 2012, 07:05 PM
Sounds to me like your already cooking your curries properly emin-j. As you said you'd need to match your t/a's ingredients exactly to match their food. Its almost impossible for me not to compare my efforts to my favourites, but the underlying taste I can get now is there right across the board in any t/a I use. Whole spices certainly add to the complexity, I use spiced water & it's as easy as it gets to make & add it, but I have it down as another layer, rather than what gives a dish it's bir character. I'm also finding some of the pastes work in a completely different way, when my cooking is spot on, whereas before they were being overpowered by undercooked spices & tasting like s**t

ELW

Hi ELW, sounds like your definitely getting there  great stuff !
For me the experiment I did by putting whole spices in with the two portions of base for our Saturday Madras was well worth it,the aroma and flavour was the best curry I have made and I could have licked the plate !
That was using the curry2go base and I have since tried the same with my usual saffron base but it doesn't hit the spot  the curry2go base has much more ground spices in it and this could be the difference.
Although my curry's are very good (according to my curry loving family) my curry's are still missing that 'silky' look (veg ghee maybe ?)
and comparing my home brewed curry from Saturday to the one from our fav T/A there's was lighter in consistency with a lovely savoury flavour with that unmistakable BIR aroma  gotta get me some veg ghee 
I believe whole spices in the base is definitely the way forward (spiced water or other) but working out how much of each to put in could be a bit hit and miss 

Quote from: George on March 11, 2012, 11:30 PM

Quote from: emin-j on March 11, 2012, 07:42 PM
At no time was this mixture cooked on a high heat,no flames,no smoke,and no coughing

Many thanks for a very interesting report. I don't doubt you're right but the implications for some previous claims on the forum are quite serious:

1. It means that most of the breakthrough claims arising from the Fleet 5 visit are thrown out the window.
2. If vegetable ghee is used, it means any claims for spiced oil become irrelevant.
3. Claims that you need something like an industrial furnace on high heat are also under threat.

All that, and you still get a really fine-tasting curry by the sound of it.

POST CHECKLIST:
Could this post be construed as negative? - yes - pass
Is it potentially helpful? - yes - pass

Hi George, If the singeing technique works for you then great but for me it doesn't,I don't want to discredit any of the work done by the Fleet 5 and I have enjoyed reading their experiences and findings at the Zaal Restaurant.
However,knowing from my earlier visit to our favourite T/A kitchen that a 'slow boat' style of cooking produces a first class BIR curry I had to visit again to put my mind at rest and ask a few more questions 
One question I did ask was why he (the chef) didn't cook on high heat and he said ' making a curry on lower heat will take a little longer but will make a better tasting curry' and judging by the results who am I to argue !
I was a little surprised at the use of Veg Ghee and not oil in making the final curry and this lead to my question as to whether he used Veg Ghee in the base gravy and the answer was yes 3-4 chef spoons.
My curry's are very good and whether I singe and don't realise it I don't know but my best efforts have been with the use of whole spices but still not quite there,I do believe now knowing our favourite T/A and the Zaal restaurant use veg ghee this could be the missing % obviously using the right amounts in the base gravy and in the final curry (if you choose to use it) might be critical 

Quote from: ELW on March 11, 2012, 07:54 PM

QuoteShe did say this time she would wait in the car because I embarrass her with my cheek asking all the questions

love it!


Hi emin-j, I can now produce the type of taste that the restaurants here in Glasgow dish up. Veg ghee may add something as it's used heavily here & may fry better but it doesn't produce the flavour I've been after. A commercial cooker on low is probably still hotter than a domestic on high, so in the past when I've been following the cooking times on video's etc, they have been wrong for me. Try re doing the curry again the pan if it's not up to scratch 1st time aroun, which seems to make up the cooking shortfall. I'm finding it a foolproof method

ELW

Some good points there ELW 

 My and the Wife's favourite takeaway is a 25 mile round trip from where we live so unless we are passing that way we don't get to have their delicious curry's that often  Some time ago when we did visit them I asked if I could watch our curry's being made and to my surprise they said yes  from that visit it confirmed to me I was on the right track but still something was missing  anyway,although we had a home made  curry last night we were within range of the T/A today and the Mrs agreed to have another curry  She did say this time she would wait in the car because I embarrass her with my cheek asking all the questions  , luckily as it was early the chef was on the counter taking orders and he remembered me from my previous kitchen visit and asked me how my curry's were coming on so I took my chance and asked him if I could come into the kitchen again and after a little hesitation he said yes  ;D and this is what happened ....
2x Chicken Madras,

Ali Pan on medium flame,Chef's spoon of Veg Ghee  added not Oil 
Garlic/Ginger paste added and stirred into the ghee for about 20 seconds
A tiny amount of met hi leaves and salt were added
Spice mix and chili powder (TRS chili) were added and stirred for about 20 seconds
Thinned tomato paste and fresh coriander added and stirred for about 20 seconds

At no time was this mixture cooked on a high heat,no flames,no smoke,and no coughing 

The first ladle of thin base was added followed by the pre cooked chicken,after about a minute a further two ladles of base were added and the gas turned down slightly and the curry allowed to simmer for 5-6 minutes and stirred occasionally.
The result as usual, bloody delicious  100% BIR.
I did ask if he used Veg Ghee in the Gravy pointing to a pot holding about 15ltrs and he said yes 3-4 chef spoons.

Although the thought of the health implications using Veg Ghee I feel I must at least try it in moderation 

I have tried the 'singeing' method for the last few weeks but my curry's taste the same as they have done for the last year or so and for me it is not a step forward but what with my use of whole spices and soon veg ghee I feel I will be getting close 

Quote from: curryhell on March 10, 2012, 11:03 AM

Quote from: gary on March 09, 2012, 10:25 PM
Proper BIR really.

If you don't get these brief moments in the fry pan right I think all the rest of the stuff is wasted,

Gary

QuoteGreat to hear you're getting the desired results Gary.  I love the "scrape and shake".  It goes well the singeing ;D

I feel a song coming on shake and vac style ! ;D

Definitely a fan of Authentic Curry's  even had two lessons in a local restaurant who only cooks Authentic.