I have observed 2 bir chefs knock the chef spoon very hard against the pan during the whole cooking process, every few minutes. The pans they use were very dented from this, and no longer round. It must be important, but why? i can only assume it stops things burning on the base of the pan? but could there be more to this technique than this? anyone know the answer?

i once gently fried the dry rice grains in loads of ghee, added cardoman, cinemon, aniseed, salt to the rice cooker and produced the closest replica to the rice from my local bir. it was spot on. I made sure each grain of rice was coated in ghee , before adding to the rice cooker. The chef at my local recommended adding aniseed seeds to rice. ( a few pinches only per portion) they also use safron for some rice dishes.

after all this discussion about buying a 10 litre pot, I bet the chef comes round and advises making a scaled down base with 5 onions and half a red pepper !   ;D

Yes i agree totally secret santa. well put ! I purchased 2 silver tubs of bir base from an outstanding bir in my home town. It was thin bland and greenish brown. I cooked 2 of my standard madras and bhuna dishes with it, and it tasted almost identical to my normal efforts with a safron style base. since that day I have simplified my base and taken less time on it. I have put all my effort into changing the recipes and spice mixes i use. I am now producing restaurant quality dishes (several friends have confirmed this). For the first time recently i ordered a jalfrezzi in a new bir and it was identical to my own. Its what you do with the base that counts. the base is not too important. although it must meet certain criteria.  Hint - dont rule out aniseed seeds and star anise together with green pepper ! they all fit together to make a great jalfrezzi taste. Especially with the DD spice mix (found in the spice mix area of this site) cheers DD

This thread is quite timely for me. I ordered a takeaway the other night and my car stank of a cabbage like smell. I would not be at all suprised if cabbage is a missing ingredient we have all overlooked. I know of one very good indian cookery book which states that some restaurant curries back in indian include cabbage. It lists a few recipies with white cabbage, as well. These are obviously not bir style curries, but it proves cabbage is part of real indian restaurant cookery.  This only occured to me after reading this book a few weeks ago. I may try just adding a little cabbage water to my base to start with.

Hi Chris, the patchapman tikka is disappointing. I tried it. A lot of effort , for a unremarkable taste. I felt he had over complicated the recipe, and did not really understand the ingredients. It was old skool indian home cooking taste , not at all bir.
A good chicken tikka needs lemon salt butter cream yogurt coriander cumin , chilly powder, ginger garlic, sugar or honey . this to me is a bir tikka.

Jerry, you make some good points about most members not being involved in the journey. Just wanting the end result. How many members are there now?

In response to the original question of the thread , the harsher the better as far as i am concerned  ;D  its the only way to really achieve a perfect clone , i believe it can be done without insider knowledge, i swear i am getting closer every month. its really just about playing around with the spices, and key ingredients. we are not missing any key ingredients. 

Hi fridgedoc, to my mind that proves there are trade secrets closely guarded as it forms the backbone of there business. It also displays evidence that there are preparations that are closely guarded, done in the afternoon / daytime. Its significant that none of the you tube videos ever show chefs doing these preparations. instead they just show the chefs cooking the final curry. presumably these demos dont risk revealing these secrets.

Hi Paul P, i am just experimenting with all spices, cardoman, fenuggreek seeds, onion seeds, cinemon, mustard seeds, poppy seeds. adding a little to each madras, and trying to gauge if its nearer or further from bir taste. It seems to take a few attempts to really taste whats going on. its not as easy as i thought it would be. I am no longer just aiming for bir taste , as its more fun just experimenting creating my own style and taste. Its debatable if my new approach will get closer to bir or not. I suspect not, but what else is there to try after 2 years ? sadly no one is willing to seriously help cr0 members on our quest.