Quote from: Ian J on December 04, 2005, 10:55 AM
I can only presume that the flavours were diluted by the oil and by skimming it off I was also taking out the flavour.

Hi Ian,

That's interesting! Perhaps the oil carries more flavour than we give it credit for.

You say three hours was about the time you cooked it for. This is more than double what the recipe suggests, so wonder if this made a difference, can't see it should though.
How much oil did you use in the base in the first place? Was it what the recipe suggested? And how much oil did you "skim off" ?
In the DVD they suggest skimming off the FROTH and not OIL so maybe the oil needs to remain!

I can't see why it should have been so bland or anything you might have done wrong. I suppose it just shows you how two batches made the same can turn out so differently! That's life!

Ray

Hi Pete,

I think Bruce Edwards is rather good.


Coriander x 7
Turmeric x 7
Cumin x 5
Curry Powder x 4
Paprika x 4

I tend to use home made Garam Masala ( Pat Chapman does a good one ), whole roasted spices and ground in a coffee grinder but as it is far more aromatic to shop bought I use only a half what the recipe says.

If I use shop bought it is either Rajah or East End, both being fairly aromatic but not overpowering.

Ray

Quote from: Ian J on December 04, 2005, 12:25 AM
The 1st base was very nice and the closest I've come to a restaurant dish.
This time around it was a total disappointment
The base had absolutely no depth of flavour, whereas the 1st could have easily been eaten as a mild curry with very little added to it.

Hi Ian,

I made the same base yesterday and it did have a depth of flavour to it rather like a mild curry so I do think you need to reduce the base down a bit more.
I let it cook with the lid off for about an hour and it reduces down by about a third and becomes thick enough to sort of "plop" off the spoon, rather like thinned out wallpaper paste! DO peel the Ginger or use Ginger/Garlic Puree from a jar ( 2 TBSPS
It must have some flavour in it as you have added Garam Masala and Pepper although this is about all that gives it a kick so it won't be too highly flavoured, that comes in the final dish.

The K.D. Base is even more bland. If you want to start out with a base that has more flavour from the start try Bruce Edwards or Darth's base. They both have more going in right from the start.

Ray

Me again!,

And another thing. If the re-claimed oil used comes from the base sauce it can be used in any strength of curry from Korma to Phall as it isn't "chilie" hot enough to spoil the milder dishes.

So there!!

Ray

Quote from: Yellow Fingers on December 03, 2005, 09:28 PM
I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you claiming that the skimmed oil is better because of the extra spices, or are you saying that you just haven't used reclaimed oil before? Or something else perhaps?

Hi YF,

I am sorry if I haven't been too clear about things but I had been in the kitchen all day ( the wife's away! ), messing about with curry base's, different recipes, generally making the place look like a tip? and using a few ideas from the site.

All that "Curry Overload" followed by a couple of hours with "Stella" may have caused me to ramble a bit so I do apologise for that.

What I am saying isn't anything particularly? new and I am not laying claim to any revelations. The use of re-claimed oil has been tried and tested on this site and discussed at length. Pete has spent a lot of time with re-claimed oil and I have simply taken the step to try it myself.
I had free reign in the kitchen for a whole day ( sheer luxury!! ), so what better than to use it to my advantage.
It's one thing to deliberate and post comments on the site from the comfort of an armchair but another to actually get in the kitchen and do the business, and it's more fun!
So,sleeves rolled up in I went!

I have never used re-claimed oil before and I have reservations if many B.I.R's use it on a regular basis. I must say I have never seen any of mine actively re-claiming oil it but they do ladle oil into the cooking pan from a big pot near the cooker and not from a bottle or drum so I assume this might have something to do with it.

I decided to experiment on a "suck it and see" basis but instead of re-claiming oil from the finished dish would use the base instead. Not particularly revolutionary but I thought it could be a way of generating a larger amount of oil than I had been able to do.

I decided to use an amount of base sauce as a catalyst for the oil and put a disproportionately large amount into the base then cook it. That gave me more oil to play with whereas before I could only skim off a spoonful or so.
The resultant oil is indeed ruby red, has a very curry-house smell about it and is beautifully spicy.
The fact I used a base sauce (Balti Kitch) that has a fair bit of spicing in it worked well.
I would imagine, although I haven't tried it, that the K.D. base would not work as well as it doesn't contain many spices.

I can see why members of the site then use this as the cooking medium in their curries as it does impart a flavour that stands out in the dish. It has the smokieness we associate with the missing taste of the BIR so I can see why it is used by some in their cooking.

Like you Darth I don't like oily food so I didn't use too much in the final dish. I made a CTM and the last thing that needs is oil swimming on top.
I used about a cooks spoonfull per two portion dish ( 2-3 TBSPS ) and the oil incorporated into the sauce and didn't float on top.
Needless to say the base I used to generate the oil went down the sink and not round my coronary arteries!!

Even using this smallish amount made a marked difference so "yes" YF I am saying the skimmed oil is better due to the spicing it has picked up from the base.

Health isn't something on the BIR chefs mind so I am not surprised many curries come with a layer of oil on top. If it impart's that flavour then so what about the health consequences! There are not any BIR's I know who use Olive Oil in their food ( don't see much in asian shops! ), but I don't think using it would drastically alter the taste and it is the "healthy option" of course.

So in conclusion this experiment worked for me.
Re-claimed oil with it's additional spicing and taste adds an extra depth to a curry dish. Whether this is the "secret" we are all searching for I don't know. However, I do think it takes us closer to an answer, would recommend others give it a go at least once and I for one will be using this method again.

Regards

Ray

Hi All,

As an experiment today I decided to make a batch of re-claimed oil using the base sauce from the Balti Kitchen Video.
I have had a bit of trouble getting sufficient oil from a standard base so thought of using an amount of cooked base and an amount of oil to generate spicy oil specifically for use.
As you are probably aware I quite like the Balti Kitch recipes and have had a lot of success with them but wanted to see if anything could be added with the use of re-claimed oil. It does miss that elusive taste but don't they all!
Perhaps this is a way of injecting the missing ingredient into the sauce!

I made the base as per the recipe below.

STAGE ONE

2 ? Lbs Onions, peeled and roughly chopped
1 Bulb Garlic, peeled and separated into cloves
1 Dessertspoon Salt
2 ozs Ginger, peeled and roughly chopped
2 Tbsps Vegetable Oil
2 ? Pts Water

METHOD

Put Ginger and Garlic Cloves into a blender with 1 cup of the water.
Blend for 30 secs.
Put Onions in a large heavy pan. Add Garlic, Ginger puree.
Add the Oil, Salt and remaining water.
Bring to the boil, cover and simmer for 40 minutes, stirring occasionally.
Remove from the heat and allow to cool.
When cool blend a little at a time until it is a smooth creamy texture (important!).
Ladle off TWO cupfuls and set to one side. ( Used in pre-cooking method ).

STAGE TWO

INGREDIENTS

1 Small Tin ChoppedTomatoes (200 gms)
1 Cup Vegetable Oil
1 Tbsp Tomato Puree
1 Dessertspoon Paprika
1 Tbsp Turmeric
1 Teaspoon Ground Black Pepper
1 Dessertspoon Garam Masala

METHOD

Into the Onion Mix add the Tomatoes, Oil, Turmeric and Tomato Puree.
Place back on heat and bring to the boil. Add Paprika, Black Pepper and Garam Masala.
Reduce heat and simmer uncovered for 20 minutes.
Remove any residue that rises to the surface and stir frequently.

........................The resultant sauce is a little more spicy than most with Garam Masala and Pepper so felt it would produce an oil with an equally spicy depth.

I ladled about 400 mls of sauce into a wide frying pan along with a handful of fresh chopped Coriander. To this was added an equal amount of Vegetable Oil and the resulting mix simmered and stirred for about 15 mins.

The oil was easy to spoon off if you tilted the frying pan and became dark, sweet and smokey tasting.
It's smell was an instant reminder of how a BIR smells as you first walk through the door so I knew I had got somewhere near what I was after.
The taste of the oil on it's own is spicy, smokey but with a sweetness ( maybe the Garlic ) that is hard to describe.

I then used this oil as per the recipes to make a CTM and a Chicken Balti and the results were remarkable to say the least.

The only difference to what I would normally do is the addition of the re-claimed oil in place of the fresh Veg oil the recipe demands, everything else being the same.
The difference in taste is so marked it is hard to believe that just this alteration can make such a difference to a dish but it does.

I discarded the base sauce I had used but felt if I added more oil to it I could easily have made a further supply of oil from the same pan of sauce.
I ended up with about 300 mls of clear dark oil without too much base in it as it was very easily separated.

I had some pics to show but don't know how to get them onto the site any more! Any ideas?

Having read a few postings where folk have experimented in re-claimed oil I can now back up their claims with my own findings.

This oil I am sure is a key in the search for the elusive taste of the BIR curry. I have tasted some pretty uneventful dishes in my time but the ones with the "taste" stand out a mile and I believe these are the ones from restaurants using re-claimed oil.

Maybe they generate the oil from using the mild base sauce as the catalyst ( just guessing! ), so this way any curry mild or hot can be made from it.

One thing I am now more sure of I shall be using this method again as the difference is so remarkable and that much nearer to the taste we all strive to achieve. It may not give an exact replica of the taste we want but I am so pleased I tried this as I am that much nearer to the goal and can only recommend others give it a go.

Regards

Ray

Hi Ian,

I have been pondering over this question a bit and wonder if the amounts of spice this chef tips into the pot were meant to be measured amounts at all.
After all we are watching a demonstration staged for a film where the end result is more than likely thrown away and only used as a prop for the film.
You know, like Ribena for Red Wine, Tom Ketchup for Blood..........etc , etc. Maybe that's why there is a discrepancy in one scene when they mention using Menthi (leaf ) and seem to be putting in powdered.

How many times do we see a favourite T.V. chef say "use one tablespoon of oil" and pour in half the bottle!

I don't know it's just a thought but I would err on the side of adding what the recipe screen shot shows as the initial amount. Any adjustment you make after that which shows an improvement can then be noted for next time.

Ray

Hi JB,

There's one or two interesting spices in the Masala's. "Curry Leaves" and "Onion Seeds" in the Balti Masala and " Ground Cardamom" could be pretty dominant in this one.

"Dried Mint" and "Ground Aniseed" in the Garam Masala! More powerful tastes. Quite unusual to see these.

The other notable point is the 2 Tbsps Balti Masala in the curry base!
It seems like it is going to be a more highly flavoured, aromatic base than say KD.
Even the Basic Balti recipe has 1 Tbsp of the Balti Masala in per recipe along with odd teaspoons of Cumin, Fenugreek and Coriander. Even without cooking it I would imagine this is going to be a fairly highly flavoured dish.

Does the foreword mention who these people were and how they came to write this book? When was the first print made? I wonder if it came before or after the "100 Best Balti's" book?

Thank's for your time getting these typed up. As has been said this is rare and out of print now so thanks to you we can get an idea what is in it.

A few more of the actual recipes to go with the base would be nice as well ( grovel, grovel ), or an idea what recipes the book supports . If you still want to send me some photocopies I can type some up and post as well.

Regards

Ray

Yep,

The 2 kg Khyber Brand Vegetable Ghee is the one I use too.

Seems like the most popular around Bradford.
I think the Pure Butter Ghee is less popular now due to it's artery clogging properties!
I can't say I have ever seen it used much at any BIR iv'e been to although some do seem to have an old looking tub knocking around.

I use the Veg Ghee in rice and sometimes on Naans and have tried it in curries as substitute for Veg Oil but can't say it adds much to the taste. Keep mine in the garage where it's cool and it doesn't seem to deteriorate at all. It tends to be a bit hard if it's cold but at room temperature spoons out like soft scoop ice cream.

Ray

Er, whoops, sorry folks my mistake. It is on the site and it seems it was me who put it there in the first place. It's been a long day!

Ray