Quote from: madrasandy on July 28, 2014, 08:46 AM

Quote from: jb on July 28, 2014, 08:41 AM
As regards to rinsing the garlic pan,I think it may have some importance.The pan was still quite hot when the contents were originally tipped out and when he rinsed the pan there was an almighty sizzle and he immeditely put this back in the curry pan.

the chef told me that he makes his own chilli sauce that he adds to madras/vindaloo/phal etc.It was on the side next to the stove in a tub.

Jb thats exactly what happened when I rinsed the garlic pan , the sizzle, giving a wonderful aroma.

The chilli sauce-was it green and look like blended chillis or did it look like it contained any spicing?

Yep the sizzle gives off a lovely aroma.The chilli sauce was red,not green.No idea what went in it,apart from fresh red chilli.Don't worry as soon as I find out all will be revealed.

It's sounding promising guys,I'm glad I've helped let's hope this really is the answer.As regards to rinsing the garlic pan,I think it may have some importance.The pan was still quite hot when the contents were originally tipped out and when he rinsed the pan there was an almighty sizzle and he immeditely put this back in the curry pan.

I'm guessing you can make a madras that way Haldi,however the chef told me that he makes his own chilli sauce that he adds to madras/vindaloo/phal etc.It was on the side next to the stove in a tub.Next time I go in there I'll get a demo as well as asking about his home made balti paste.

Hi guys,sorry went away for the weekend.Well,this is looking good.I really hope this is going to give us that last bit we've all been chasing.Haldi if you think you've finally cracked it I'm so pleased for you,I know how frustrating it's been for you.

It seems such a simple thing to do and it's strange that no-one has come accross this garlic thing before.I have to say when I portioned it up for the freezer the taste of the base was terrific,it had that special something that I've never had before in a base.Like I said I cooked it myself,no special ingredients or magical pastes,and certainly no flames or flambe.The garlic was quite bown(but not burnt).
He tipped the garlic/oil in the gravy,spooned a ladel of gravy back into the garlic pan to get all the residue out and then emptied it back into the gravy pot.The most important thing is to cook the onions fully and then re boil the base after the garlic is added.

I asked him about his mix powder and he showed me the usual selection of powders...cumin,turmeric etc.He seemed a bit dismissive of the importance of mix powder really,any decent one will do he says.I actually had my notebook full of my Zall lesson.He looked at the mix powder from there and said that one will do.

The chicken curry was quite simple.A ladle of oil/veg ghee from the tin on the stove.I then added ginger/garlic,salt,mix powder,tomato paste.Cooked that out,added some base and the chicken.It was then cooked for about two minutes on a fairly high bubbling heat.He didn't add any methi by the way.Very simple,and quite important to me,very few ingredients,no pastes or anything so the base was the main thing that went in so it had to be good.PS forgot to mention a little bit of the spiced oil from the top of the gravy was added towards the end of the curry.

Quote from: chewytikka on July 24, 2014, 01:29 PM
Really good fun JB, did you hang around and get offered any Iftar goodies.

Was this better for you than the Zaal visit, i.e. a one to one tutorial with these cooks.

Just to back up your report about adding a Garlic tarka, which is old school BTW and not a lot of my locals do anymore.
I took a phone pic of a 30lt restaurant base last night, you can see the sliced garlic floating on top of the oil, before the base was blended.



Although you say only one clove of Garlic, sliced and fried (Tarka) to finish,
even in a 3kilo base I would use at least 5 cloves of Garlic to get the flavour into it.

Anyhoo, what level would you rate this TA's curries and have you tried any of their speciality dishes.

Good Post
cheers Chewy

Hi Chewy,I got to take home the chicken curry and tikka massala I cooked,as well as the paste and gravy I made.They gave me some pliau rice and also knocked me up a peshwari naan.At one point I was chatting about all things tandoori and the chef was to trying to get ME to make the peshwari naan...I thought I'd better leave it to the expert.

Not sure about 5 cloves of garlic,just even adding one has given the base an extraordinary flavour,never seen this done before by the way.I've had a few curries in there,very nice indeed.I have my eye on a few specialities and I'll try and get a demo on how they are done.Was it better than the Zaal??  Yes although the Zaal experience was good I had the opportunity to watch the Chefs cook the curries as the orders were coming in.They thought it was highly amusing that I was in their kitchen cooking a base gravy.As the Manager pointed out,before the recession they used to hold quite a few(home style) lessons,but this was the first time he'd been asked about base gravies/massla paste etc...He was very impressed and said he couldn't wait to pass on his knowledge to someone!!

Quote from: Secret Santa on July 23, 2014, 10:11 PM
jb what do you estimate the 'chef spoons' are in tablespoon or teaspoon measures?

I had a good look at the spoons the chefs were using(wife thinks I'm a a saddo and should get out more by the way!)

I would say they were equal to 4 tablespoons.Having said that the chef kept saying it's not an exact science,these guys are experts and can do things mostly by eye.I will try and get back in the kitchen asap,I'm welcome anytime.Hopefully I can share some more tips and info....no ebook here!!

I thought it might be better to post the recipes in the appropriate sections,that way any newcomer looking for a specific massala paste recipe can find it easily...but then again I hear what you're saying about a single thread.

The chef had a catering sized can of fruit cocktail,he only used half so I guess about a 400 gramme one will do.I can remember when the use of fruit cocktail  or fruit in general in massala paste was first mentioned on this forum and the uproar it caused,this chef uses it without a doubt.

It was Coleman's prepared mustard,not powder.Seen this used before,I think in the Kushi book.

He added very little almond powder,maybe 100 gramms.I've seen some videos where the chef adds more,again this is this chef's preference.I've also seen chefs add masala paste in a pan and then add more sugar/almond/coconut.However in this paste all of these are added sufficiently in the original paste so assembling the dish on a busy night is so much easier.He made a few tikka massalas while I was in the kitchen and it was made in exactly the same way has he showed me.

Bit too much flash on this,the dish is actually quite red.



tikka massala together with a basic chicken curry

Here is the masala paste I was taught on my recent takeaway lesson.

In a pan put...

1 onion finely chopped
1 chef spoon veg oil
1 chef spoon butter ghee
1 chef spoon veg ghee
half chef spoon ginger/garlic paste
small amount salt
half a tin of fruit cocktail blended with water

cook slowly in the pan making sure it doesn't catch until the onions have melted.

Then add 1/4 chef spoon each of kahmiri massala paste,tikka paste,and tandoori paste.Also add
tiny amount of coleman's english mustard,tiny amount of coleman's mint sauce.1 chef spoon yoghurt,175 ml lemon dressing,1/4 of coconut block,3 chef spoon of blended plum tomatoes,1/4 chef spoon garam massala.

Then add 1 kilo sugar,1 litre uht cream,some red colour and yellow colour,900 grams coconut powder and a small packet of almond powder.Then take a dry pan and add a table spoon of methi leaves and brown(but do not burn!!)...add this to the other pan.Make sure the whole mixture is stirred well and is not left to burn.Simmer until the paste thickens and turns 'gloopy',then blend.

The chef said that this is a scaled down version so you may have to adjust the lemon,sugar coconut levels when you taste.It seems an awful amount of sugar but believe me you taste this and it's just like a concentrated tikka massala sauce.To make a massala sauce put a chef's spoon of oil into a hot pan,add a couple of spoons of paste and cook through.Then add two ladles of base gravy and simmer.Splash of cream at the end when served and it's done,that simple.The flavour comes from the psate and nothing else is added when cooking so the paste has to be very strong in sweet/coconut flavour.

I asked the chef why he adds yellow colour and not just red.He explained that if it was just red when the gravy is added the dish would lose a lot of it's colour and not be that 'deep' red.However a touch of yellow keeps the colour vibrant and it does actually work.The roasted methi is just his way of doing things.

Watered down gravy with added garlic tarka



Undiluted thick gravy without garlic.



chicken tikka masala and plain chicken curry using my gravy and masala paste....They had the smell and the taste!!

Here is the base gravy recipe I was recently shown by the chef on my recent takeaway lesson.I have been assured that it EXACTLY how the base gravy is prepared for a night's service,just on a smaller scale.As you can see it is quite similar to other recipes,there are no 'magic' pastes or ingredients.I cooked it in the takeaway kitchen so it should be able to be done in a domestic kitchen.Once it was cooked,I tasted it and compared it to the chef's gravy he had on the go.....It was virtually identical.Indeed although it's similar to other gravies it had a special something that I've not been able to manage before.The chef impressed the point that the onions MUST be cooked until they've virtually melted...that's the key to it's success.

3 kilo white onions(any sort,they chop them so it cooks quicker and it doesn't affect the taste)
1 green pepper/1 red pepper
small bunch corriander stalks
1 small carrot
2 chefs spoon plain veg oil
2 chefs spoon blended plum tomatoes
1 chef spoon ginger garlic
1/2 chef spoon salt
1/2 chef spoon turmeric
1/4 block coconut block

cover with water,put a lid on and then boil on a high heat for two hours until the onions are melting.


Then add 1/4 chef spoon turmeric,tiny amount of chilli powder,1/4 chef spoon cumin powder,1/4 chef spoon corriander powder,1 chef spoon  blended tomatoes.Re-cover and then turn the flame down(so the bottom doesn't catch )and cook for another half an hour,then blend until smooth.

The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.It should be very thin,like watery soup.However when it hits the hot pan it will thicken.Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise.

So,nothing unusual and certainly no magic paste nonsense.Next time I go to visit the takeaway I will try and go when the chef is making a full size base gravy.Like I said though the gravy I made was a near perfect match to what he was using.