Nice one YF  ;D ;D ;D  But I do like Goat.

CP

Yep KV I would go for coconut rice, probably made from creamed block coconut.  The spicy sweetness will come from Cardamoms also, and the yellow from Saffron not turmeric or colouring.  Another variation is to put sweet caramalised onions on top.

CP

Welcome, and you sure will be able to knock out a decent curry from the help here.

CP

Welcome to this great forum.  Please try to contribute as much as you can and dont't be afraid to ask.

CP

Thanks Andy for this extensive and detailed post.  I feel I must take your retaurant to task because what you report is not safe and would be condemmed by your local Health & Hygiene people if they knew of these practices.  I have outlined my comments below in red.  Please do not be offended I am just trying to help and reduce risks.  Hopefully it will not really apply to our home cooks.

CP

Quote from: andy2295 on January 08, 2007, 05:36 PM
Hi all.

To continue from the base sauce/gravy.

Pre-Cooking Meats and Vegetables.

The takeaway and restaurant list per example Chicken Madras or Meat Madras on the menu. The chicken is obvious but listing Meat gives them the option of using either mutton or lamb. The chicken and meat arrive pre-cubed in large plastic bags from the wholesale butcher.

I hope these are kept well chilled and seperated during the day

Here is what happens:-

Towards the end of the evening 2 large saucepans are placed onto a work surface.
Into each saucepan is put 2 ladles of oil, 1 level tablespoon of turmeric and 1 level tablespoon of tomato puree, about 6 asian bay leaves and four finely chopped garlic cloves. Both are given a good stir to mix. Then the cubed chicken is added to one and the cubed meat to the other. Everything in the pans is tossed to coat the meats with the mixture. They are then lidded and left overnight in the cooler cabinet.

OK with this providing all ingredients are chilled to the same temperature

This is to top up the already pre-cooked meat to the levels of what was started with at the beginning of the night.

This strictly illegal and highly dangerous.  Batches must NEVER be mixed and each batch must be labelled with a DAY LABEL and production date.  All catering establisments have to follow these rules or they will be closed down

They calculate this by adding up the amount of dishes sold (simple).

The following day at around midday when the kitchen staff arrive 2 ladles of the base sauce/gravy which is obviously cold are added to each pan and stirred in.
Heat is applied to both pans constantly stirring. When boiling the heat is reduced to a simmer and boiling water is added to just cover the meat in both pans stirring to mix.

This is OK and similar to the average BIR approach, but I must stress that clean ladles are used and a separate ladle for each meat product.  Also you must not let the ladles come in contact with the meat or you will cross-contaminate the base and meat and create bacterial growth which at best will just shorten the shelf life of the products or a worse cause food poisioning.  This does apply to home cooks so beware please.

The chicken is left to simmer for approx 20 minutes and the chicken is skewered to ensure it is cooked. The heat is removed and the chicken is removed with a slotted chefs spoon to drain the fluid and placed in a container and left to cool.

Yes, the chicken should be only just cooked, but must be left in the oil with no heat applied to cool down.  It should not be removed from the liquor as this will immediately cause bacterial growth deterioration.  The chicken and cooking liquor/oil may be transferred to sterilised container, e.g. that has been washed in a dishwasher, and topped up with fresh oil to cover it by about 1 centimetre, and a lid placed on the container.  This will prevent deterioration  and also means that it can be kept stored in the fridge for about a week (keep topping up the oil). The Chicken must not be stored dry as you suggest unless it is to be totally used up during the following Service period.  If this sounds familiar, I have already posted this.

The meat is left to simmer for approx 1 hour to obtain the tenderness. The heat is removed and the meat is removed with a slotted chef?s spoon and placed in a container and left to cool.

The comment above equally applies to red meats.

The Chef?s Note: The same measurements of turmeric, asian bay leaves, finely chopped garlic and tomato puree along with base sauce are used no matter how little or how much chicken and meat are being pre-cooked. The only variable is the water. I mentioned about other spices and he said no, no, no! The pre-cooked meat has to be used for dishes such as Korma and Passanda. No heat or spices he said.

Yes I agree, but I use as little water as possible as the Chicken and meat will release quite a lot during cooking.  I prefer to use lots of oil and a little water

So to the vegetables.

Potatoes.

These are cut into small cubes and simply boiled in Water with a touch of salt and a tablespoon of turmeric. Nothing more, nothing less. The potatoes are only just cooked so they remain solid without breaking up. They are then kept in the fridge for use.

It is very unusal that no oil is used during the process.  I know that most Indian chefs will add a little oil to the boiling water and coat the potatoes with oil after cooking also.  This stops the potatoes drying, breaking up, and going black, and preserves them longer.  Also waxy potatoes should be used (see long discussions on this elsewhere)

Cauliflower.

Here frozen cauliflower florets are used and cooked exactly the same as the potatoes.

Yuch, I abandoned using frozen a long time back and when I have queried my cheffy friends they have done so as well.  Frozen florets are too tough so have to be overcooked.

Next post very soon

Regards
Andy

Keep it coming Andy.

Yes YF I agree on that point too. 

CP

Wow, what can I say Cory, absolutely fantastic.
CP

Quote from: Yellow Fingers on January 11, 2007, 10:08 AM
In reply to Cory Ander.


P.S. If this really is a common ingredient of high street curries it will be available in quantity at any asian grocer/spice merchant.

Hi YF, thanks for that response.  This is what research is all about, and input from everyone here is very valuable and can only contribute to the final solution.  On your point about catering Bouillion, I can't recall seeing it in any of the many Asian grocers I have visited, but I have seen it in the large Asian supermarkets that do Wholesale and retail.  However, I regularly see the Indian chefs shopping in the Makros and Bookers that I have used (the local ones chefs here are a bit more wary now they know I am a potential competitor, but very friendly nevertheless ;D ;D

CP

Hi CL, it has been around since God was a boy under diffrenet formulas.  My Father was a chef and when he taught me the basics way back in the 50's he was using Knorr (but I think it had a trade name then) bouillion.  I think I precede the BIR revolution except Veeraswamy's  ;D

Getting a card from Makro can be more difficult than Bookers.  The process for both is to get a name for your business (must be food related) and produce evidence of your residential/business address.  You must also produce evidence of your trading situation.  I just printed off a couple of made up invoices.  Not a problem now because I am well established.  Contact a friendly retailer or pub or hotel and make some bills out to them.  Makro do make a regular review and I guess so do Bookers; but as long as you trade regularly and your payments to them look reasonable (I spend about ?700 per year with Bookers) they should leave you alone. 

Just a word of warning though, in a lot of cases Tescos can be much cheaper and they will also order trade stuff for you if they can.

Just a point, MSG is created from vegetables  see these links to get a better understanding of MSG

http://www.msgtruth.org/whatisit.htm

http://www.foodproductdesign.com/archive/1998/0298AP.html

The things mentioned here should ring a bell; I have been saying things on these lines for a long time and more recently on the use of stock production and use.

A bit anal I know, but maybe it will push your serach efforts elsewhere.

CP

I find this thread very interesting and something in my brain cell says there is some connection.  In my non-ucb production I do not add any extra flavour adjusting/enhancing ingredients, e.g. stock, just salt.  Over the years I have discovered two main processes that influence the final flavour.

1. The cooking of the meat in the sauce or precooked
2. the stage in which salt is added and what amount is used.

There is a third not so important, which is the addition of GM and acidifier at the later stages.

Yes, the spices and their amounts to make some difference but the prime changes in flavour and smell.

If you watch good chefs prepping they all produce their own stock which they use to create their signature dishes.  These can be made totally from vegetables or totally from meat, or a mix of the two.  They can be pre roasted before simmering and reduction or not.  Rarely are any flavour modifiers/enhancers used, e.g. salt, pepper, etc., are used, the flavour comes purely from the natural flavours releases in the base.  However wine or vinegar are used quite often

Food for thought?
CP