Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 01:46 PM
Did you somehow manage to overlook this part, CA ?  It addresses the very point that you are (laboriously, and seemingly interminably) seeking to make.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 12:14 PM
the specific message to which you referred (the initial message entitled "Product Review : ...") was irrelevant to this thread, which is why it started a thread of its own; but later discussion in each thread had some relevance to the discussion in the other.

No, I didn't miss it, but I thought it to be absolute twaddle and contradictory (again).

Your twaddle about "but later discussion in each thread had some relevance to the discussion" is just that; twaddle.  I therefore treated it with the contempt it deserved (by ignoring it....as I will (probably) do with your future replies on the matter).

All the "later discussion" happened, by you, in your very first post of your thread where you rather stupidly combined unrelated comments, from elsewhere, and took them totally out of context!

And now you're stupid enough to try and defend it... :

Quote from: PhilOf course it is irrelevant, CA : it is in a different thread ("Product review : Patak's tinned (concentrated) Vindaloo sauce"); why should it be relevant to the discussion in this thread ?

Quote from: Phil
Threads don't exist in isolation, CA : they are all part of one great Universe of Discourse, and when something written in one thread impinges on discussion in another, it would be perverse (or foolish) to pretend that it does not exist

Hmmm, and now I expect everyone else is also as confused as you seem to be about your own posts Phil 

Quote from: CAPerhaps we can focus on the topic of this thread (rather than continuing to argue the toss about the virtues, or not, of Patak pastes)..

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 10:29 AM
Of course it is irrelevant, CA : it is in a different thread ("Product review : Patak's tinned (concentrated) Vindaloo sauce"); why should it be relevant to the discussion in this thread ?

Uh, because you related (and seemingly confused) the two topics, in both threads, Phil?  :

e.g. In your (which was the) first post in that thread, you wrote:

Quote from: PhilTo address Cory Ander's and  Secret Santa's criticisms, let me repeat them here and then address them one by one

And you go on, in a similar vein, and on, and.... :

It seems we both agree, then, that you relating comments made in this thread, to that thread, was totally irrelevant!   

In that thread, you then went on to quote me as saying something in this thread (which I did) and then related it to Patak vindaloo sauce (in your other thread) claiming that I was "two thirds wrong".  Which was totally irrelevant to that thread!  So who's confused, Phil, really?  :

And you (rather confusingly, it seems to me) come out with your previous "trollish" comments (hoping to solicit an emotive response, it seems to me), in this thread, about me being one of the two "fiercest critics of pre-made pastes"....which is total b*llocks (as I have already explained above)!

QuoteAnd, contrary to your beliefs, I did not go off at half cock [1]  at all

Yes you did.  You tried, it seemed to me, to be overly clever (acting like a typical troll, in my opinion, trying to solicit emotive responses, as you are still trying to do here) and tried to prove your very poor point (about how useful Patak pastes are) , in a totally irrelevant way (i.e. irrelevant to the points that were made about Patak pastes in this thread) on another thread!

Perhaps we can focus on the topic of this thread (rather than continuing to argue the toss about the virtues, or not, of Patak pastes)....

....why do the BIRs, in Haldi's area, no longer produce curries with "the taste"?

Perhaps you have something useful to contribute to that debate Phil (rather than angst)? 

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on August 31, 2012, 11:44 AM
Secret Santa and Cory Ander, as the fiercest critics of pre-made curry pastes

Listen up, Phil, I never said that at all! 

The debate about Patak pastes (and commercially produced curry pastes, in general) arose because Haldi asked why he is unable to buy BIR curries with the "taste" anymore.

Secret Santa suggested it was possibly due to the more prevalent use of Patak pastes, compared with BIR curries of the 70s and 80s.  I agreed that it is a distinct possibility (and highly probable). 

Admittedly, Haldi said it was a "sudden change", which may or may not preclude the more recent, and more prevalent, use of Patak pastes (or other commercially available pastes).  There may be many other reasons, of course.

Why you would go off, at cocked hat, and describe your experiment with a significantly adulterated (and completely different) Patak commercial curry sauce, I do not know.  Totally irrelevant, in my opinion.  And. as stated before, I tried these Patak sauces decades ago.  Incidentally, perhaps you should have sent the resultant curry, to Haldi, to deduce if it was the "taste" that is now missing from his BIR curries!   :

Having said all that, I regularly (and judiciously) use commercial curry pastes (including Pataks....though I prefer Ferns and Ahmeds) in my curries.  And I do find they can "add a little something".  But they also "add a little something" distinct and undesirable (as previously described and for the reasons cited). 

Nevertheless, the "little something" that they "add" bears little resemblance to those decent BIR curries of yesteryear (or how they were then made), in my opinion.  And I stick by that.

You might be surprised to hear where Aussies wear their thongs, too! 

Panch Phoran ("Bengali Five Spice")

Equal parts of:

• Nigella (kalonji/wild onion) seeds
• Fenugreek (methi) seeds
• Cumin (jeera) seeds
• Black mustard seeds
• Fennel seeds

Quote from: Unclebuck on August 28, 2012, 05:15 PM
how do we know the use of pataks in the BIR trade is a modern thing? just a quick looky on there site there pastes first got into supermarkets in 1978

UB, I doubt Patak pastes were commonly used by BIRs before about the 1990s (despite what the Patak website might claim.....I am happy to be proven wrong).

Nevertheless, the debate here is why has the quality of BIR curries declined in "recent" years?

It has been suggested that BIRs may, more and more, be using commercial pastes (such as Patak; I have rarely seen other brands mentioned; why, I don't know, because several seem to be of a better quality...i.e. fewer additives).  And that this has led to a demise in the quality of BIR curries.

Quote from: UBnot that i really give one

If you care about the quality of BIR curries, then, surely you WOULD "really give one! 

Perhaps, if you agree that the quality of BIR curries has declined, you can suggest other possible reasons?  If you disagree, then why don't you say so?

Otherwise, why the f*ck would you be here or even bother to comment?!  :-X

Quote from: chewytikka on August 28, 2012, 01:44 PM
Can anybody actually point me in the right direction for all these overwhelming CURRY recipes that rely on Pataks pastes please.
Apart from curries that need Red Masala or my Jhal Mix or Balti I haven't noticed many on here

I'm sorry CT but, besides the ones you've cited, there is much talk (including by yourself) of using "Naga" this and "Naga" that "paste/chutney/relish", etc.  They were (also) not available to BIRs in the "old" days (i.e. prior to the 90s or 80s...or...to be reasonable and factual...before the 2000s!)!

Quote from: ChewyTikkaIf you have enjoyed BIR Tandoori, Tikka and Kebabs over the past 30 years, you've been enjoying Pataks flavours,  its that simple.

But CT, we (at least some of us) are talking about BIR curries BEFORE 1980 (and I'd say you really mean to say, as far as the Patak influence goes, before about the 1990s)

Perhaps the truth of it is is that is doesn't much matter to most forum members nowadays....

And, let's be honest, you recently posted about a naan..with garlic...and ROSEMARY!  (whatever rocks your boat, I suppose, but, as far as I'm concerned, it sure as hell aint "old school" BIR!)

Quote from: Edwin Catflap on August 28, 2012, 11:32 AM
just cut a lid off and spoon the prawns in!!

I'm not sure you need to "cut the lid off", EC?

You should be able to just push the top of them to deflate them?  Perhaps you cooked them a little too long (or too hot) and they became, somewhat, hard and crisp?

Thanks for trying them and reporting back though! 

Kids love 'em (with the sugar, not so sure about the pepper!) 

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on August 28, 2012, 10:02 AM
so long as the antioxidants, stabilisers, preservatives, acidity regulators,  bulking agents, etc., do not affect the flavour, their presence or absence makes no difference.

I think you're too busy contemplating your navel, Phil.

It is definitely not the case, is it, Phil?  Patak pastes (because of the above additions) are acidic, tart and impart a distinctive taste to anything they are added to.

Haldi raised the question as to where all the decent BIRs have gone.

Secret Santa replied that, in his opinion, the more prevalent use of Patak pastes (and such like) by BIRs is probably one good reason (I'm sure there are others too) why today's BIRs are, apparently, inferior to those of the 70s and 80s.

I agreed with him.  And still do.  For the reasons cited.