i wouldnt listen to much to kds opinions. cr0 members know alot more. for a start adding tomato or tomato puree to early can lead to sour taste in base. I always add tomato puree or tomato late in base making process. as advised by a real bir chef. 2ndly adding spices early is not my favoured apprach, i prefer to let the onions cook in the oil for 40 minutes with garlic etc, then add spices. this avoids spices losing flavour from too much boiling in water. it often weakens the spice flavour in a bad way. I aim for a rich orange base, by adding tumeric and paprika quite late. they need about 30 mins on slow simmer to release the flavour.  I dont add these at the start ever. Just my opinions from 4 years of experimenting. kd also over does the ginger and onion amounts. too much onion leads to a sickly taste in a base. this took me a year to realise. reduce the onion and add some green pepper. this creates a dark flavour in a the base , and makes for an interesting final curry.

the real bir base i once purchased and cooked with, did nothing to lead me closer to the taste. My curries tasted much the same as normal. i can only conclude all real bir bases are very different beasts. this supports my theory that all bir chefs arrive at a different style of cooking by there own trials and errors and skill.  I remember the chef at my local described 2 process when making base. 1) was adding the chicken stock from the pre cooking of chicken. 2) was making a tom puree and oil and garlic fried paste (with other spices i expect)  then adding this to the boiled onion at a later stage. He said it was very important.  Its a bit like the method when making a kd1 base, where you add the tomato towards the middle of base cooking.  I always adopt this approach of making the base in 2 parts , before a final slow simmer. it is important and helps improve the final curry massively.

ok solarspace, i was kind of hoping someone from cr0 would indicate if that base was any good. Thanks for putting my mind at rest !   I can cross that off my list of ideas to try. I moved house recently , and am looking forward to getting the time to really inovate some new curry recipies. I am sure the secret taste is mostly about practice and gradual recipe refinement.

ok thanks jerry for your 2 peneth worth! . i disagree  about your comment on mint. At least one bir near me does the best balti in the area, and its got some dried mint leaf in it. Its not appropriate for most dishes but really works in balti, which is quite flavoursome. Have you tried cabbage in the base?

hi solarspace, i am from east sussex, and i too doubt its used, but you never can be sure until you try. i was suprised to find out cabbage is used alot in indian cookery in india itself.  there is a cr0 post with a base featuring cabbage , so i am not ruling it out. 

ok guys i am sold on trying this. cheers

Hi paul, i feel the cabbage is an important one we should know the answer to, as bir curries give of an aroma that is slightly resembling cabbage , or some other vegetable. its a distinct smell i dont get in my curries. it must be key to the taste, and all good bengual  bir curries have this aroma. It could be fermenting onions ??  i will try the garlic and ginger powder in my spice mix, although i am not sure if its what i am looking for. 

mixing up 40 litres of red hot smoking  base with a hand blender takes nerves of steel 

hi thanks solar. i thought some one would know the answers , cheers.  collectively, as a group, we know bucket loads of useful information on achieving the illusive taste. If one person on this forum,  knew all our individual tips and tricks, and techniques,  they would cook a curry to die for !   ;D   

There are so many things i would like to know more about, and if it will lead to much on an improvment on my basic madras sauce. (which i am happy with, but its no where near the standard of my local)
my questions are
1)  does adding garlic powder to spice mix improve it
2) does cabbage in base work well
3) is tarragon an overlooked ingredient
4) is extreme heat needed?
5) is the petes grabi spice oil going to be worth the effort
6) is mint leafs and curry leaf another ingedients i should use more
7) is lemon chunks in the base an improvment
the list goes on. any help on these questions i would like to know.
cheers DD