Quote from: Secret Santa on March 31, 2013, 07:14 PMFresh GM at any stage of cooking is one more step away from old style BIR for me.

I couldn't disagree more (no surprises there!).

I just view GM as being another flavour provider in ground form.

What I find curious is that people are happy to use the whole spice versions of GM, but seem scared of using the powdered form. Perhaps it's because they use too much of it and find it overpowers the dishes. It's interesting how people are starting to introduce GM flavours into base sauces via whole spices but reject the ground form which if introduced into the base sauce with the mix powder used would probably have a similar effect.

GM adds another flavour level over the top of the usual mix powders used and to be honest I get a bit tired of the dominant flavours most mix powders give particularly as they seem quite heavily reliant on generic Madras curry powder.

Perhaps people could try using a GM with a heavy coriander/cumin base with only smaller quantities of the more pungent GM spices such as cassia, cardamon, cloves, nutmeg etc.

I think GM gets a bad reputation here.

Quote from: chonk on March 31, 2013, 07:00 PMDid recipes both ways, and never felt how or if it affects the taste. Some thoughts? (:

Hi Chonk

I've just never felt that Cardamon shells add much to the flavour to be honest and everything I've read on the subject seems to indicate the same thing. So I tend to just take the seeds out and use those without really thinking about it.

As I mentioned I generally tend to make fairly small amounts of Garam Masala at a time so removing the seeds isn't much of a big deal. But I do find that drying the seeds out in a frying pan over a low heat can help as they can be a bit sticky to grind properly. I've never used the shell of a black cardamon.

I suppose we all develop our own ways of doing things!

Quote from: Whandsy on March 31, 2013, 05:49 PM
What's everyone's opinion on garam masalas, do you make your own or use pre mixed powders?

I make my own from whole spices in fairly small batches as garam masala goes stale very quickly and loses its pungency, which some might see as a benefit!

The primary ingredients of it are Cinnamon/Cassia, Cloves, Black Peppercorns, Cardamons (seeds only). Variants include nutmeg, coriander seeds, cumin seeds and Indian bay leaves. Some also include fennel, aniseed, star anise etc as well.

It's a question of looking at a few recipes for it and trying a few out and experimenting with quantities and ingredients until you find one you like.

Quote from: DalPuri on March 31, 2013, 05:26 PM
But there is NO denying that flaming the pan adds extra flavour.

Agreed.

And for many, that's exactly the flavour that's missing from their home cooked dishes.

I've always described it as a smokey flavour and I think I said right at the beginning of when I joined this site, that this was the flavour that was missing from my dishes.

What's fairly apparent I think (if only to me and a few others) is that all of us here are at different levels of achievement in our curry journey. What might be the missing piece of the jigsaw for me, might not be the same for someone else. That's probably why some of us feel that high heat and flaming pans is the final answer in achieving full BIR style flavours whilst others may not.

This is why I think it's wrong for people say well, this isn't the answer. Well it may not be for them, that's not to say it isn't for someone else.

What's factually true and accurate, is that without being able to actually taste the dishes others produce it's virtually (pun intended) impossible to say what might be missing from them.

We're all at different levels of ability, we all have different taste buds, this is why we get so many different and varying opinions on here on a wide variety of issues.

Hi John

This is my recipe for Saag Bhaji that I've pretty much arrived at through trial and error. It uses common ingredients to typical BIR style cooking - garlic/ginger paste, base sauce, mix powder etc and I've used it with a variety of different base sauce/mix powder combinations with reasonable results so there's no one mix powder/base sauce combination I'd recommend. I would suggest however that you stick with one mix powder/base sauce combination from one source rather than mixing and matching them.

I'd encourage you to experiment with it and find out what works best for you, the ingredients aren't set in stone. Add some chopped/sliced green pepper in with the onions if you like or perhaps extra sliced garlic, a pinch of garam masala 5 minutes before the end, mix in a dollop of cream or yoghurt at the end etc.

It's meant as a starting point really. If you try it, let me know how you get on.


Ingredients

1 Chefspoon oil
1 Heaped tsp garlic/ginger puree
1/2 finely chopped onion (1/2 a medium/large one, 1 whole small one)
1 or 2 finely chopped deseeded green finger chillies
About 12 frozen pureed spinach blocks defrosted
1 Chefspoon/ladle base sauce
Finely chopped coriander


Spices

Pinch asafoetida
1/2 tsp mix powder
1/2 tsp ground red chilli powder
1/4 - 1/2 tsp salt


Method

1/ Heat oil in frying pan on medium heat, add garlic/ginger puree and fry till it turns an almond/beige colour.

2/ Add onions and half of the chopped green chilli and fry on a low heat till soft or just starting to turn golden and/or brown round the edges, about 5-10 minutes. You should see the oil separate from the onions.

3/ Turn up heat to medium, add spices and fry for about 30 seconds to a minute. Add a chefspoon/ladle of base sauce and reduce this to about half on medium heat.

4/ Add spinach puree and the other half of chopped green chilli and stir fry till fully mixed. Cook on medium heat till all moisture has been absorbed stirring occasionally making sure it doesn't stick and burn. Once it starts to crackle, turn down the heat to low and let it caramelise in the pan stirring occasionally for about 5 or 10 mins or so.

5/ Add chopped coriander.


Notes

All the magic in this dish happens at the end where you want to cook off the moisture but also let it stick slightly and caramelise the onions/spinach puree on the bottom of the pan, this is where that lovely smoky flavour develops and comes from. You'll know when this starts to happen because the mixture starts to crackle as it dry fries in the pan. Just don't leave it so long it burns.

Because I fry off the moisture, I don't worry or bother too much about ensuring the spinach is strained of moisture before it goes into the pan like some of the other dry style methods. I've added the spinach frozen, semi-frozen, defrosted, boiled and strained and I find no difference in taste. The easiest method is to defrost the spinach first and add it as it is.

I personally prefer spinach puree, I have cooked this with frozen and canned leaf spinach and it works equally as well, although I don't really like canned leaf spinach, but I just prefer the texture of spinach puree. Use whatever you prefer.

Feel free to experiment, this is not intended to be definitive, it's just the method and ingredients I've arrived at through trial and error and I find it produces reasonably consistent results.

If you don't have any asafoetida don't worry it's not essential for this recipe, It'll work equally well without it.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on March 30, 2013, 05:01 PMNo, you did not.  You made your comments based on /your interpretation/ of the constituents of "generic Deggi Mirch", as blended by you.

Phil, we've been over all this, why are you determined to carry on arguing this point just because you've made a fatal mistake in assuming that the original recipe must have meant MDH Deggi Mirch?

I've explained in some detail what Deggi Mirch is. In Hindu Deggi/Degi/Deghi means flesh of the pepper and Mirch means pepper or chilli. Loosely translated it means skin or flesh of the Pepper/Chilli. Lal Mirch simply means Red Pepper or Chilli. These are generic terms, not to be confused or translated by pedants such as yourself into brand names.

The next thing you'll be trying to tell me is that Garam Masala is only Garam Masala as long as conforms to what comes out of a Rajah packet. Now, you and I both know that Garam Masala can take almost as many forms as there are manufacturers who make it and not one of them will use the same ingredients. They're not generally interchangeable, Rajah's Garam Masala will be different to West Ends which will be different to TRS's and so on. Chilli powders are no different.

You'll then try and tell me than something is only Hot Chilli powder as long as it comes out of a packet that says Hot Chilli powder on it!

Do you not think I've tried MDH's Deggi Mirch? I'd be surprised to be honest if there's a single Kashmiri Chilli in it and is probably full of the much cheaper and much more easily obtained Byadagi chilli combined with more generic Lal Mirch, cheap fillers and artificial colouring. I didn't like it, I didn't like it's flavour and thought it was over-priced for what it was, particularly given I didn't know what ingredients it contained. But if you think it's good and can't taste the difference carry on buying and using it.

If you want to continue with your view that Deggi Mirch is only what comes out of an MDH packet and ignore the fact that as defined it is a generic blend of Kashmiri Chillies and Pimiento/Capiscums that is entirely your choice. Remain in your ignorance.

This is my last comment and post on this subject as I can see it's boring the pants off everyone else.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on March 30, 2013, 04:24 PMthe Deggi Mirch that Goncalo would almost certainly use is MDG Deggi Mirch (by far the most easily available in the UK) and therefore it is essential that this thread clarifies that MDH Deggi Mirch is far far hotter than sweet paprika as well as having a totally different flavour.  Ensuring that this is clear to Goncalo and other readers is my only reason for continuing the debate.

And that's where all the trouble started Phil.

If you read back to what was said, at no point was it ever mentioned this was MDH's version of Deggi Mirch. You naturally assumed it was.

I made my comments based on what the generic Deggi Mirch was, which is pretty close to Paprika. You made your comments on MDH's version which was not explicitly stated in the recipe. Nor was it stated in goncalo's question. So how do you know it was MDH's version or the generally defined generic version?

You're merely assuming that the recipe author meant MDH's Deggi Mirch (despite explicitly stating Deggi Mirch OR Paprika) and that anyone making the recipe will also use MDH's version.

And not only are you assuming without knowing you continue to argue the toss about your potentially wrong assumptions as well!

And no doubt the original author of the recipe ingredients is wrong too to have said Deggi Mirch or Paprika, because it doesn't sit happily with what your own sole experience of what Deggi Mirch is that comes out of an MDH box!

Good grief.

Quote from: Secret Santa on March 30, 2013, 11:06 AMYou're on the wrong forum pal.

Yes, I forgot the forum seems to be mostly about copying what BIR's do without actually understanding why, perhaps that's why so many people struggle to achieve the desired results!

Quote from: George on March 29, 2013, 10:07 PMIt's far more likely they use packets of chilli powder, so it seems quite valid for us to do the same.

The don't use MDH Deggi Mirch either George!

I've said it before on here and I'll say it again. I don't copy what BIR's do, because what they do is mostly out of expediency and cheapness. I don't have the same cost constraints as they do and I like to know exactly what's going in my food.

If you want to copy them and use cheapo bags of chilli powder, that's your choice and prerogative.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on March 29, 2013, 07:16 PMNo, I trust them because they are professional Indian spice suppliers who have been in business for almost 100 years.

I used to, too before I read about Ian Hemphill's experiences in the Spice industry.