Oops! Caught me editing...

Yes, I've tried adding fried onion to the base myself.  I've only tried frying garlic and/or ginger at the dish stage though, so if finely chopped onions disappear into the sauce that could explain it.

Booking next weekend for a big curry cook-up!

Me too.  Thanks, thomashenry.

One thing that keeps throwing me when I try out some of these great suggestions is that the vindaloo from my favourite local is just meat, potato, and finely  pureed gravy.  I've poked about in it looking for stuff and there are no little chunks of chopped onion or pepper and if there's any chopped garlic I can't see it (though they could be frying garlic puree).  I know people on this site have actually seen these things added to the pan in demonstrations, but it would appear my local doesn't approach the dish in this way.  Yet it still has the smoky toffee taste.

That's lead me to believe it's possibly there in the base to start with (but as with everything, I'm not sure!).

Hey - chin up, guys.

Pete - you found what you were looking for through sheer commitment and determination, and that's a massive achievement in itself - even if you don't like what you  found.  I'm not a veggie, but I feel squeamish about the chicken bone jelly too.  I've got to try it once for myself, but after that I agree - it's awfully time consuming for the sake of home cooking and it does sound unpleasant.

Everyone, think about what Pete's given us here.  If this is a major factor (and I only say 'if' because I need to try it for myself - I'm not doubting Pete's word) then we've all got somewhere to start in terms of finding an alternative - which I certainly intend to try and do.  What's more, there's somewhere concrete to start, and we can maybe talk about replacing these flavours to other experienced chefs who may not be as guarded as some BIR chefs.  It's a whole new project.

Hope I'm not speaking out of turn.

The chicken stock/jelly is something I must try on my next cook-up.  Pete, do you think it's essential to actually just use the jelly from the top of the cooled stock? I'm just thinking about the waste....

As I understand it (and I might well be wrong) it was usual for curry houses in the early days to cook their chicken by boiling it on the bone and then stripping the meat.  Using jelly as a by-product would make sense in that case, and it could have carried on to the present day when it was established that it's part of the taste...

I don't want to fuel any 'conspiricy theory' thoughts here, but something funny did happen a couple of weeks ago when I was at a takeaway late one night.  The kitchen wasn't open plan, but the door to it was wide open and wedged with a door-stop.  "Great", I thought, "they don't mind people seeing into the kitchen". I propped myself up against the counter and had a look.  I could see right down the length of the prep surfaces and the hobs were clearly in view.

One of the chefs caught my eye, and I smiled, but no response.  Then there were a few words exchanged, and one or two others looked at me, so I looked away. I gave it a minute and then tried to watch again - I saw the Chicken Tikka being pulled out of the fridge, on the skewer in whole  breast-sized pieces, and cut up into smaller pieces before being added to the pan.  I saw two large pots on the stove... and then one of the staff called the guy at the counter in.  More words exchanged, more glances at me - and then the guy took the doorstop away and closed the kitchen door!

The thing is, one of the large pots obviously contained the base sauce, as I saw it being used.  But the other pot, which had no lid, had clouds of steam belching out of the top.  In my experience base sauce doesn't steam that heavily, even when you're boiling it.  But something much more watery - like chicken stock being prepared for the next day at a rolling boil - would, wouldn't it?

A friend of mine  is a strict veggie, and a fan of restaurant 'C'.  He'll certainly want to know if theiir curries contain chicken stock.  I'll get him to ask if his next curry is suitable for vegetarians.

I actually started saving oil to reuse as an experiment a couple of years ago, but stopped when I when I realised that yes, the oil does pick up accumulated heat from the chillies.  The thing is, I have my curry a lot hotter than my partner, so I had to stop!  It also made me think twice about restaurants doing it.

I'm trying it again anyway as an experiment, 'cos i never found out how much of a difference it actually makes (in terms of heat).  I'll save the oil for my curries and use fresh oil for my partner!

Hi Yellow Fingers

Yes, I have tried browning garlic several times, thanks to the advice on this site .  Despite me being pretty sure I've browned it just right according to Pete's descriptions (Dark caramel colour, not golden, and not quite Nescafe brown) I'm pretty sure it's not the factor I'm looking for.  Though it does add a nice taste and smell of its own, I agree!

Hi, both!

>>If you can get down your local takeaway and hassle em for some recipes

Ah, I'm afraid I don't have the bottle of some of you guys!  Though I did ask once at my (best) local takeaway if I could go in and watch my meal being cooked on a quiet night.  I was told politely but firmly that "we don't do that sort of thing".

My favourite BIR meals are Chicken Vindaloo, Lamb Madras and Lamb Pathia.  Chicken Dhansak too.  I always have Sag as a side dish and, if I'm sharing  I'll split a Sag Prawn.

But my top of the list is (here I'll get laughed off the screen) Chicken Tikka Vindaloo!  Yeah, I know, I know... A friend of mine introduced me to it and it wasn't 'till I tried some of his that I believed it could work!

I only try to reproduce plain Vindaloo, Madras and occasionally Pathia at home, though.

Hi everyone

I've had meals from three takeaways in my area - let's call them A. B and C.

'A' tastes little different from a well-cooked Kris Dillon.  I've only had it a couple of times.

'B' is better than 'A', with some kind of X-factor, similar to the taste (from what I can tell) described by Blondie. But it's nowhere near as good as 'C', which all my friends agree is the benchmark by which all local takeaways are measured!

The nearest I can get to describing C's special factor (and I've tried many times, talking to the spice man at my local market) is:

A combination of smell and taste somewhere between smoke and toffee.

This factor seems to be present in all their dishes including Sag Bhaji and even Onion Bhaji, as well as all the classic meat and veg curries.  When I open the front door of my flat  and the guy is standing there with the bags, the smell hits me straight away.  When  I stagger into the kitchen at the end of the evening to get another beer, the smell is still there from the empty containers even though I've eaten and smelled the curry all evening.

This has lead me up two garden paths in the past.  I've tried substituting pimenton for paprika in the base sauce, on the basis that it's smoked.

It was 'orrible, and went straight down the sink!

To me, butter ghee smells of toffee.  I tried that, but it seemed to make little difference in the finished dish.  I abandoned it on the basis that the next mornig the ghee in the leftovers had become opaque, which is not the case with leftovers from the takeaway - it still looks like transparent red oil.

At the moment I'm experimenting with saving the oil from my curries in a jar, so when i get enough I can use it in my next base sauce.  Given that my most recent curries are 'tweaked' Dillon ones, I'm surprised to find that when I open the jar to have a sniff it does have a hint of 'that smell' - just not as strongly.

Ian
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Quote from: curryqueen on April 27, 2005, 06:44 PM
... those who have registered and are not posting?

Oops!  I'll be one of those, then... ;D

To be honest you all seem so far ahead of me that I feel a bit inhibited about posting my feeble experiences.  I haven't done anything that's not already covered in depth here - though I've got plenty of disaster stories to tell about vast pots of toxic curry gravy being poured down the sink!

I'm also a bit of an internet thicko, and it can get a bit bewildering at times.

I'm out of work at the moment, and funds are a bit limited, so I can't really afford to experiment on a frequent basis.  I tend to only cook a batch of curry once a month or so, and I tend to err on the side of 'the devil you know', on the basis that it can actually be eaten by myself and my partner over the following weeks!

But I'm really enjoying reading these forums, and I didn't join with the intention of just lurking.  Bear with me and I'll try some of your techniques in my next curry and report back - if there's anything to shout about, that is!

All the best,
Ian
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Name:  Ian (another one!)
Age: 40
Location: Essex

Hi, everyone.  I've been following your excellent forum as a 'guest' for the past few weeks, ever since I saw the link on the In2curry site.  I started to feel a bit guilty about lurking, so thought I'd better join up!

Fantastic work being done on here, with real guts and determination from those people researching the secrets of the restaurant taste.

I need to say a special thanks to Pete, who was kind enough to email me a couple of his recipes a few weeks ago when I contacted him  after stumbling across the In2curry site.  Thanks again, Pete!

I've been struggling with trying to achieve the restaurant taste for about five years, and managed to produce results ranging from 'Quite Nice' to 'Toxic Waste'.  Best results so far have been with tweaking the Kris Dhillon recipes, and of course trying some of the recipes on this site.

I'm not sure how much I'll be able to contribute, because my internet access is limited - I'm not connected at home.   But I can usually pop in each day to keep up with things.

Anyway, congatulations to everyone concerned on such a great website.  Where were you all 5 years ago, when most of my curries were being flushed down the sink in disgust?!

Ian S.