This thread was originally about people interested in cooking at this BIR.  I have moved any posts about this to a new thread here:  https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4056.msg36760#msg36760  The remainder of this thread is now about the recipes arising from the discussions.  I hope separating the two topics makes things clearer for all - CA

Hi all.

I had a lengthy chat with the owner of my local curry takeaway after he invited me "round the back".....

.....The base =
Onions Boiled in a pan 2ft across and 1ft deep , for 2 hours
Nothing else added.
After boiling
4 chefs spoons of chilli powder ( in my opinion on the spoon it would be 2.5 cups total qty )
4 chefs spoons of salt
1 chefs spoons of tomato puree
4 chefs spoons of oil
After this is added blend with blender
Bring back to boil , simer for 1/2 to 1 hour.
Let cool , oil will come to top , scoop off and discard ( its thrown away )

Nothing else is in it, no ginger , no garlic , nothing , i sepecificly asked " is there anything else added ? " . He said "no". I aksed about carrots , he said " no , it would be too sweet . If we put carrots in we would have to use more salt"

To make the basic medium house curry ( he made this for me , I was 2 ft away from the gas ring )

Four chefs spoons of the curry base were put in pan.
Brought to boil.
Pre-cooked chicken added from bubbling pan on next ring. He told me small amount of Haldi and chilli was in with the bubbling chicken. It didn't look heavily coloured. Just looked like water with maybe 1 or 2 teaspoons of each in the water. I would say there was enough chicken for 6 or maybe 10 curries.
After boiling this lot ( note : I would say it was boiling rather than frying ) for about 3 minutes , part chefs spoon of Cumin added ( maybe about 2 teaspoons ) . same Powdered Coriander . 1 large pinch ( maybe a teaspoon ) of dried Methi.
It all looked nice an sandy coloured ( mid range to light brown ).
He asked " do I want it yellower" . I said no it looks fine.
He asked " do you want it redder " . I said no it looks fine.
He continued on a high boil for 2 to 3 minutes , then put it in the plastic tub , he emptied out of the corner of the pot any excess oil ( it went down the sink ) sprinkled a pinch of chopped Coriander leaves in and put the lid on . Done.

I asked " no garlic no ginger" he said " add garlic if you want, we do if they ask for it. we do do garlic curries and we do add ginger in some types"
I asked about other things too like Cumin , Ajwain , Cassia , Cinnamon and others , he said yes sometimes but in very small amounts.
His advice was keep it simple, don't add to many different spices, they will not improve flavour , they will just alter it and mask other spices or make it too intense. I asked about his HOT-ROD cooking ring . " do you need all that heat ? " He said "NO, it's just for speed , we have to be quick. I asked " could I make the same curry at home on my normal gas ring ? " he said " yes , it makes no difference , you can make it at home exactly the same". I asked about oil and does he save it or reuse it . He said no , they never save oil , they try to make curries with less oil now , viewpoints have changed . I asked have peoples tastes changed with regards to oil . He said not as far as he knows because they are selling more curries now , even though they have less oil in them but if someone askes for an oily curry , they can have one.  He said extra oil adds nothing to the curry as far as taste goes , it still tastes the same.

Now, on eating at home , it wasn't the best curry I have had from there , but it was a bog standard average nice medium curry. For my taste , a little lacking in oil , but strangly there was some red oil on the top by the time I got home and ate it but not much.
It slightly lacked colour for my preference.
I think he normally adds a few more bits for my usual order but keep in mind this was his demo to me of how easy it is put together. 

Hope all this is usefull knowledge for anyone whos interested.

Keep the faith.

Im'e interested in whats in it

Don't the Ashoka Resteraunts throw Battered Mars Bar into the base ?

Quote from: Panpot on December 03, 2009, 06:10 PM
spice as Nice, thanks for your tip will have a go tonight for a Thai Curry planned for tomorrow  and report back. I do know at The Ashoka the meet is all pre cooked cool before cooking but as you would expect a fast turn around when Busy. I precook as per their recipe and freeze till required and it is still the business. PP

Good Luck with the Thai.

I would be having another go tonight but I just daren't. She would kill me as the smells still here and there in the house. Iv'e just used the last of the last base last night so Im'e itching to make up my next base and experiment with yet another variation. Iv'e also been warned she needs the freezer cleared a bit now as it's getting nearer to Christmas. I might just have to wait till the new year now so any currys I make between now and then will be one-offs.
Hmm just wondering if next door has any room in their second freezer !

Let us know how you get on Panpot.

Quote from: Cory Ander on December 03, 2009, 02:52 AM

Quote from: 976bar on December 02, 2009, 06:56 PM
Harbut, It really doesn't matter what you marinate it in

You really need something acidic (e.g. yoghurt, vinegar, wine, lemon juice, tomatoes, etc), to break down the proteins, fats, fibres and tissues, surely?  At least if you're attempting to tenderise the meat rather than to just add flavour.  And usually some oil to prevent the meat from drying out.  And some seasoning/spices to flavour it.

Quote
It needs to be cooked to a slightly pinkish colour

Gawd, that would signify blood to me, and not something you'd want to be doing with chicken!

Hi CA,

You say ... quote "You really need something acidic (e.g. yoghurt, vinegar, wine, lemon juice, tomatoes, etc), to break down the proteins, fats, fibres and tissues, surely? "

The method I mention above in this thread does exactly that . It breaks down the proteins. It really does work. The transformation is quiet noticeable. All that's required is water and bicarb.
If a spice mix is added about halfway through the bicarb process this mix seems to be absorbed into the meat much more intense than if the meat is simply marinated in the spice mix only.
Next time you are using lamb or chicken , just try a couple of peices as a tester.

I hope this might be a good answer.

Other than trying to get BIR curries in my home kitchen , I strive to get Chinese takeaway tastes too.
You know that silky soft taste they get into the meats in Chop Suey , Chow Mein and Fried Rice dishes etc.
Well, I tried those tecniques for meats I use in BIR's too and it works for me.

Tenderising the meat
To tenderise chicken or dark meat you marinate it overnight in water with some bi-carb in it. For a 2 person / portions curry I put the chicken in a small dish and just cover it with cold water. Then I sprinkle 2 teaspoons of bi-carb into the water and swish it around a little. Store overnight in the fridge with a lid or plate ontop. When you want to use it , throw the water/mix away ( it will likely be a bit bloody ) and rinse the meat under the running cold tap just for a few seconds then cook as normal. The result is extremely pleasing.

VELVETING the Meat
To get that silky feel ( some might call it slightly slimey ) then you can use the chicken or meat "as-is raw" or first as described above , then procede as follows :

For 2 ~ 3 portions
1 egg white
1 tablespoon of cornflour
1/4 teaspoon of salt

Mix all ingredients to a paste in a bowl. Do not overmix as the egg white will froth. Place meat into bowl and turn it to cover with the paste.  Keep the mixing gentle and just enough to coat everything. Cover the bowl with a lid or a plate and leave at room teperature for 30 ~ 45 minutes , thats all.
Now , to prep the meat.
Heat up a a wok or pan ( wok is best as it saves oil ) enough cooking oil to cover the meat. You can use water instead but I think the results are better with oil.
We are NOT going to cook the meat we are just going to heat it a little so keep the heat down. Drop the meat into the oil in slow amounts ( if the meat appears to sizzle or 'fry' the oil is too hot ) . For chicken we are looking to heat it for 30 seconds to a minute thats all . The chicken surface will turn white and at that point you should remove it from the oil and place it to one side. Same for dark meats , they will turn a much lighter creamy colour. Do this heat treatment of the meat in small batches. each time only for 30 seconds to a minute should see the required result. Remember , this process takes only 30 seconds or so , so you should be able to guage the oil / water temperature and adjust accordingly.Once you have all the meat prepaired this way and set to one side, let it cool. NOT in a fridge , just at room temperature.

After it's cooled procede to use it as you would normally.

Good luck and dont forget to post back regarding any trials you do.

Quote from: Cory Ander on December 01, 2009, 02:16 PM
Check out some of the other spice mixes published in the "Supplementary Recipes" section of the forum.

Hi Coriander. Thanks. My trip to Rotherham resulted in getting 2 types of Curry powder and some dried "Curry Leaves" ? along with what I actually went for. I hadn't realised but theyre a chain PAK supermarkets. They are online too for anyone wanting to google them. Strange that the website shows only Birmingham yet they say theyre in various parts of the UK.

Quote from: Cory Ander on December 01, 2009, 08:59 AM

Quote from: matt3333 on December 01, 2009, 08:48 AM
I'm sure I will be corrected if I've got this wrong

I think that might be incorrect Matt.

I think each are a BE "Spice Mix" but from different editions of his "Curry House Cookery" series.

The earlier edition has the different "strengths" (i.e. mild, medium and hot) whereas his later version has just the one (the first in the above list).  I think the first on the list is the more usual one quoted and used by most people (see here: https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1546.msg13676#msg13676)?

In the spice mix I used Chilli Powder. I summised that it was either a misprint or an editors mistaken term , using the word "curry"  rather than the word "Chilli". I can say the result was very good .  Another reason I took it as Chilli is because in the other "older" Hot and Mild mixes , it says Chilli , and theres no mention of "curry powder".  In the Mild mix , there doesnt seem to be anything added at all with respect to Chilli or Curry Powder so i take any hint of heat is taken from the Ginger . of course , all this is assumption but what else can one do , other than assume , or , try both methods , one with Chilli and one with Curry powder and see which is preferred. Now, having said that. I see that all mentions to Bruce's most recent list and then re-posted here on this site refer to it as "Curry Powder". Could we all have fallen for a misprint ? Are you pretty sure through your better experience or experimentation ? It seems just a tad strange if we are adding "curry powder" thats just a mix of the other ingredients but in lesser consentrations and if thats the case , the only real addition would then be the Chilli powder thats an ingredient in the Curry powder.

Quote from: Cory Ander on December 01, 2009, 08:59 AM

Quote from: matt3333 on December 01, 2009, 08:48 AM
I'm sure I will be corrected if I've got this wrong

I think that might be incorrect Matt.

I think each are a BE "Spice Mix" but from different editions of his "Curry House Cookery" series.

The earlier edition has the different "strengths" (i.e. mild, medium and hot) whereas his later version has just the one (the first in the above list).  I think the first on the list is the more usual one quoted and used by most people (see here: https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1546.msg13676#msg13676)?

Thanks Coriander, Well I followed your link and added a bit more puzzlement. re: adriandavidb comment on that thread about "curry powder" . Thats another spanner. I need an extra pantry with all the stuff I bought and im'e going to buy some more today. The Indian Supermarket in Rotherham is about 10 miles away but it's worth the run. I don't seem to be able to keep away just lately as I keep discovering new things. They have all the usual prepacked stuff inside and outside is all the fresh stuff , including all the fresh greens , Peppers , Coriander , Methi , Ginger and plenty of stuff I have never even seen before or used yet. They have a smashin hardware section too with all the cooking paraphernalia. If it's a driveable distance for anyone I would certainly recommend a visit.

Bit of confusion.
I downloaded the Bruce Edwards articles. I also read the FAQ here on the site. I Inputted to my Brain :
Coriander 8 parts
Turmeric 7 Parts
Cumin 5 parts
Chilli powder 4 parts
Paprika 4 parts (option )

This is obtained from Page 14 of "Curry House Cookery", and whats shown on here in FAQ's.
Then I read elswehere in the downloaded Bruce Edwards paperwork , under "Curry Powders" . 3 mixes : Hot , Medium, Mild. ..... So here's the Mild one :
Coriander 6 parts
Paprika 4 parts
Fenugreek 1/2 part
Cumin 1/2 part
Chilli 1 part
Turmeric 1/2 part
Allspice 1/4 part

Now, Im'e not questioning anyones wisdom here but you can see that these are significantly different.  The main thing stands out to me is the drop in quantity of the Turmeric and the massive increase in quantity of Paprika let alone the almost total reduction of Cumin from 5 parts down to 1/2 part.

Even looking at the HOT and the MILD mixtures in Bruce Edwards re-print I still can't fathom those in relation to the others. Main one being much less Cumin and there being Fenugreek in them yet non in the FAQ's mix.

I have stuck to the first mix , same as the one in FAQ's and to be honest , it's near enough for me but I would like to know , am I missing something here ?

Cheers all.