My local, superb BIR restaurant run by 2 brothers.

To me service is equally as important as the quality of the food and both are excellent here, definitely has the taste!

Just had a really interesting night at my local BIR, as a one off for the regulars and to raise money they did a race night which was good fun with a buffet of various dishes, at the end of the night one of the owners invited me into the kitchen for a natter and a look around.

I quized him on pastes added at the end of the final dish cooking and he said generally they dont but do in some dishes like rogan josh, I have already asked him about preparing tomato paste and they do fry it with garlic much as CP described.

He knows about cr0 and is thinking of doing a cooking course for us, this place has the taste so it maybe worthwhile if we can get enough of us to commit.

I saw a pasanda being cooked whilst I was in the kitchen and something amazed me, they had 3 x ~3 inch long casia sticks cooking in a single portion!, I saw the chef fish them out and asked him if that was a dish for staff but he said no it was for a customer.

I stuck my hand in their tandoor as well and lost all the hair on my hand, bloody hot those restaurant tandoors!

Amongst the ingredients at the side of the cooker i saw 2 tubs of goo, one was masala red sauce and the other was a pale gold. I asked him if this was the creamy nut base for pasanda, korma etc and he said yes.

He had 1 tub of ginger/garlic paste and 1 tub of just garlic paste, he also said they used the garlic flakes you can buy in the asian grocers but only for certain dishes like lamb garlic, tarka dhall etc

The pre fried onions had red bits in, I guess that was tomato.


He made a big thing about the 'stock' being the secret to any indian restaurant, I told him we had loads of different recipes for it and asked him for a sample which he gave me. It looks quite brown but on tasting it is very bland, there is the hint of spice and maybe a hint of carrot in it. Compared to our bases I would say it is more bland, more salty and a little sweet.

I cooked with this base and did a vindaloo with basaar mix, unfortunately I got the proportion of base and spice wrong and made a pigs ear of it, ah well (unfamiliar recipe)

This site is now live folks FYI

http://www.realbradfordcurry.com

to cr0.co.uk, weve been going 2 years now!

http://www.baltibook.co.uk/

Stu, FYI I havent been able to login to cr0 for over a week. when I hit the forum I just got an error 'invalid request variable', it was only after talking to pete over email I realised it wasnt down.

In the end I had to clear out all cookies, history etc from the browser to get back in and its working now.

FYI I've started removing negative posts (and replies to such so the thread retains its integrity).

To be clear constructive criticism/debate/disagreement is fine but where a post exists solely to attack another member it will be removed.

regards

Mark

Someone recently asked where everyone was with their curry cooking.

Yesterday morning I cooked pretty much the best curry ever, my curries have been getting better and better recently due to a revelation Ill talk about below, it was a chicken keema achar (chicken with minced meat and pickle) with the taste.

Over the years Ive now come to the following conclusions:
There isnt a 'secret' ingredient that adds the taste (obviously there are lots of secrets of the trade but IMHO they dont add the taste)
The taste isnt to do with the base, any good base can be used (although I do think the tarka stage adds something so I would always use a base with an end tarka stage)
The taste is entirely to do with technique and maybe the restaurant cookers, more on this below.

For some time we have debated whether the heat of the BIR cooker plays some part, I think in part it probably does. I have been cooking on a 3.3KW wok burner recently, I think the bir burners are around 4.5KW, a standard large burner on a hob is 2.5KW

The technique Im talking about is the initial frying of the garlic, spices etc, I firmly believe it is this stage that produces the taste.


What I have been doing recently for the first stage in cooking a main meal is the following:

• Heat a good quantity of oil on maximum on my 3.3KW burner, heat is kept at maximum until the first lot of base goes in
• 
  Add the garlic/ginger paste and give it a good stir round, at this point flames shoot all around the pan but not into it, in a BIR at this point the whole pan tends to end up in flames. Cook this until the garlic ginger goes a shade of light brown
• 
  Now quickly add tomato paste (im currently using half concentrated tomato puree and half ketchup), spice mixture, salt and chilli. I now cook this mixture for about 4 minutes, its a really long time and I believe this is the key to the taste.
• 
  If I need to I add a little water to stop it catching and you must contiually stir and shake the pan to avoid the spices burning, I tend to add fenugreek leaves after about a minute. Then I add coriander, pre cooked onions and main ingredient and after a minute or so start adding the base.
  

So in summary fry the spices on maximum for ages to release that flavour but add liquid to prevent catching  ;D

I also tend to use reclaimed oil, either from the base or main meals, also for the achar I used some oil from a huge tub of pataks lime pickle

Im off on a course in Chichester next week, can anyone recommend a good BIR (or indeed recommend avoiding a bad one!)

cheers

Walked into my local BIR tonight (Mughal Spice in Chepstow) and they started talking to me about his forum!

Come on then Halal & Jalal, join up and join in!? ;D

Im sure that plenty of you on this site are aware of eGullet, if not definately worth a look

Apart from the forums they have cookery classes, some specialising in technique rather than recipe, a few Indian ones also.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=25235


Should also add they have an Indian cookery forum, it focuses on authentic rather than BIR style though

Hi Folks,

Over the last couple of weeks Ive been thinking about what could be the source of the taste we seek in BIR curries. To my mind it came down to 2 options. First option is the preparation/cooking of garlic/ginger and most of all onions I think this is probably down to technique and experience, the other option is the spiced oil.

If the strong smell/taste we seek is tied to the oil then I think we have no chance of reproducing this, reason being is this strong taste is most likely due to the constant reclaiming of oil from curry gravy and curries of which the BIRs will cook several hundred during the course of a week, there's no way we can replicate this.

To put this theory to the test I have tonight obtained a sample of spiced oil from my local BIR, I go to this place every week and have done for a few years. They are very friendly and were more than happy to provide this sample for me (pictures attached below)

I will cook with this oil this weekend and to my mind this will put to bed one of these theories, if I can produce a dish to their taste then it must be down to their oil.

I want a book that teaches me to cook!

I've got so many Indian recipe books and so few of them actually have any decent instruction on cooking techniques. A recipe will give instruction on how long to stir fry/boil/simmer for in each step but not actually explain what you are looking for that designates the step is complete or any of the theory behind what is going on.

For example: typically after adding a spice paste into hot oil you are told stir fry for x or wait x minutes, and what you are actually waiting for is the oil to float which signifies that the masala is cooked.

The best book I own for talking about actual techniques is prashad (cooking with Indian masters)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/8170230063/qid=1139146602/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_0_4/026-2902072-0874813

It goes into real detail about each of the steps of Indian cooking (bhunno, bhargar etc) why,how and what to do at each step and many other tips from the chefs.


Does anyone know if an Indian cookery course exists on DVD or VHS? I dont mean like the balti kitchen for example which demonstrates the cooking of recipes more something that will spend half an hour on how to fry an onion 

I guess the real answer to this is to go on an Asian cooking course for a couple of years full time  ;D

This is recipe for the authentic rogan josh, its very good indeed,

2      1" chunks     fresh ginger, peeled, coarsley chopped
8      cloves        garlic, peeled
2      cups          water
10    tablespoons   vegetable oil
2      pounds        boned lamb shoulder or leg -- cut into 1" cubes
10    whole         cardamom pods (just the seeds, crack the pods get the seeds and thrown the pod away)
2      whole         bay leaves
6      whole         cloves
10    whole         black peppercorns
1      stick         cinnamon
2      medium        onions, peeled, finely chopped
1      teaspoon      coriander seed -- ground
2      teaspoons     cumin seeds -- ground
4      teaspoons     red paprika
1      teaspoon      cayenne pepper, gounnd (adjust to taste)
1      teaspoon      salt, to taste
6      tablespoons   plain yogurt
1/4   teaspoon      garam masala (your favorite)
1      dash          fresh ground pepper to taste

Put the ginger, garlic and 4 tablespoons of water into the container of an  electric blender. Blend well into a smooth paste.

Heat oil in a wide, heavy pot over a medium-high flame.  Brown meat cubes in several batches and set aside in a bowl.  Put the cardamom, bay leaves, cloves, peppercorns, and cinnamon into the same hot oil.  Stir once and wait until cloves swell and the bay leaves begin to take on color.  This just takes a few seconds. 

Now put in the onions.  Stir and fry for 5 minutes or until the onions turn a medium-brown color.  Put in ginger-garlic paste and stir for 30 seconds.  Then add the coriander, cumin, paprika, cayenne, and the salt. 

Stir fry for another 30 seconds.  Add the browned meat cubes and the meat juices.  Now put in 1 tablespoon of the yogurt and stir and fry for about 30 seconds until  yogurt is well blended.  Add the remaining yogurt, a tablespoon at a time in the same way.  Stir and fry for another 3-4 minutes.

Now add 1 1/4 cups water and bring the contents of the pot to a boil, scraping in all the browned spices on the sides and bottom of the pot.  Cover, turn heat to low and simmer for about an hour or until meat is tender.  Every 10 minutes give the pot a good stir to prevent burning.

When the meat is tender, take off the lid, turn the fire to medium high and boil off some of the liquid, stirring all the time, until the sauce is thickened.

Sprinkle the garam masala and black pepper over the dish and mix them in just before you serve it.



I cook the onions for a lot longer than 5 mnutes, I do them until they are definately slightly brown, also at the end I boil off almost all of the water so Im left with a really thick sauce

Just got my tava (got it from the ebay shop you recommended darth)

Pete, what recipe do you use for nans in your tandoor?

 ;D

Has anyone been able to consistantly produce BIR quality nan breads at home, using a conventional oven/grill/pan (before you jump in Pete? ;D)

The few times I have tried they tend to turn into scones.

If you have can you detail the recipe, and probably more importantly the technique you use.

My local's plain nans are gorgeous, not bery doughy at all, crispy in some places, and thats what Im trying to replicate

cheers

ps and also can you freeze the dough?

http://books.google.co.uk/books?q=curry&hl=en

Top link is a 276 page curry book that after signing in you can view the whole thing!

Edit: Actually it is restricted, cool idea from google though

Ive finally managed to replicate the taste and smell I associate with BIR curries, apologies for the long rambling nature of this post in advance.

The catalyst for my discovery was Pete's recent post on the Madras and using the KD base. Below I detail all the steps I went through to get to my discovery, I have since cooked the curry again from scratch including base and it was exactly the same.

First off Pete got me all excited about spiced oil again and his talk of the KD base so I cooked the KD base with about 500ml of corn oil and skimmed most of it off to get my first batch of spiced oil. I cooked some good curries and not so good curries with the KD base and ended up throwing most of it away (Pete's madras being the notable exception), this left me with some spiced oil left over.

I got to thinking what do the BIR's do with left over spiced oil, of course they reuse it. What follows is my description of 2 weekends just gone.


First off I started on my next base with the spiced oil I had left over, I chose Dave Smiths base (premium area of curryhouse.co.uk) and his new recipe for Chicken Achar.

I added all my left over spiced oil and some new ground nut oil to start the base off, when I added the onions they were all but submerged in the oil, this had the effect of pretty much deep frying the onions in the base. At the end of the base I skimmed off the oil.

I cooked Chicken Achar using the reclaimed spiced oil and muttar paneer, both of which I reclaimed oil back into the spiced oil pot. These curries were superb and had the taste and smell, I decided not to post as I wanted to make sure I could replicate this.

Next weekend I started the base again (Dave Smiths base only makes 600ml) I started with the left over spiced oil again only this time I also added the last of the curry base from the previous weekend. My 'son in law' works at the bar of my local BIR and I asked him has he ever seen them pour in the remnants of the previous curry base when starting to use a new batch, his reply: always. I skimmed the oil off again.

Cooked the chicken achar again and this time even better. In summary I conclude the smell/taste is due to reclaimed oil not only in cooking the curries but also in the base recycled ad infinitum. Also recycled base ad infinitum added to a new batch.

I would recommend the premium area of curryhouse.co.uk to anyone, I will post the recipes above when I get chance but for those that already have access you need to look at the base, achar and the pre cooked chicken documents

Hi Folks,

Ive registered the above domain to act as a meeting point if this site is down for any reason, it will always point to cr0.co.uk unless cr0.co.uk is currently down in which case it will detail another forum in which we can meet. As soon as cr0.co.uk is back up then it will again point back to here.

I should point out to new members that Stew does a great job hosting this site and it is very rare that it is down however I would hate for us to lose this community if the worst did happen?

cheers

Mark