are there advantages of causing the curry to split during dish frying (by over cooking the baghar stage oil,g/g,mix,puree etc before adding the bulk of the base)

i always aim never to split as the curries taste good without splitting and have never gelled with the "extra" floating oil that it causes.

if the oil skimming works then splitting could work for me if there is an advantage.

am going to give this a further go.

in past have used chef spoon (per happy-chris madras video).

its a lot of a drag and as a result avoided by keeping dish fry oil and base oil just enough to keep the BIR product but with almost no oil on the surface of the fried curry.

am looking for an more efficient way - current though being what i can only describe as a metal perforated plate to hold against the pan on an angle (a bit like draining pasta with a pan lid that is perforated). the closest seems to be called skimmer frying spoon.

if anyone already uses please give details. there seems to be too many types to choose from.

the concern being my pan rim is 10 inch and feel a spoon may be too small to stop the curry flowing out around the sides.

possibly not for everyone. i generally use it for meat going into wraps with a salsa.

after much messing and bad results this details where i got to. there was background reading done at amazingribs.com and seriouseats.com

left to decide is if foil makes a useful enough contribution. in a standard oven stage3 at 70C would work.

# starting point
experiments on low temperature cooking  in 1969 showed that benjamin Thompson's overnight meat cooking temp never exceeded 70C

#conclusions:
1) very low temp not worth effort+ prone bacteria (40,50,55C)
2) Finishing on BBQ max 10 min turning ea side otherwise too much blackened bits
3) if not using foil must be +lid to prevent surface drying out

#standard method (topside, lamb shoulder, brisket)

stage 1 - 60C 12 hrs (foil+lid)
stage 2 - 65C 12 hrs (foil)
stage 3 - 68C 5-9 hrs (foil)(use meat thermometer at center, stop when 68C)
stage 4 - allow rest in liquid 30min
stage 5 - optional 10min/side BBQ

BACKGROUND INFO

# Aim: Juiciness & tenderness

# meat protein states:
denatured myosin=yummy 50-60C
denatured actin=yucky 66-73C

optimal texture 60-67C : myosin and collagen will have denatured

# process of meat cooking:

40C, proteins start denature.
50C, collagen begins contract.
55C, collagen starts softening.
68C, collagen denatured gelatin
70-75C, meat turns grey
100C, water in meat evaporates
120C maillard boiled aroma
150C maillard roast aroma
190C (160-204C) Caramelization (breakdown of sugars)

rare (<60C)
medium (57-63C)
medium well (63-68C)
well done (68C)

am in need of sanity check on how to approach. i don't see quick fix but a lot of trial and error using small portions.

rekindled interest comes from eating in turkey and realizing bbq lamb can be very very good much better than anything bought or cooked in the uk.

the nearest example i can give is the equivalent to pink best quality beef rump steak - juicy with texture but not tuff. have cooked rack of lamb (lamb loin) in the oven to pink but even this is still tuff.

torture to date:
1) from 976bar original lamb tikka post tried kiwi fruit. it turned the lamb into mush and the bbq finished meat awful. it was that bad i have no written record - i think i tenderized in the kiwi for 40 mins before washing off, then marinade and bbq
2) asked a trusted butcher who recommended neck fillet - this was worse than 1st go - neck fillet has fat and sinu which is impractical to remove. the fat taste is overwhelming. to correct then pan fried to crisp/remove the fat but side effect meat overcooked


plan:
1) use leg of lamb - lean and easy to cube (lamb rump too small to be commercial)
2) first option use kiwi fruit to tenderize but say 10 mins max then wash off
3) second option oven slow cook at 60C to keep it pink and not loose water
4) the turkish lamb was finished on bbq but looked already part cooked (was on skewers)

unknowms
1) is acid too brutal for lamb (many appear to have had success) - will it kill the pinkness


aim to use 976bar instructions with confidence
"I just put the sizzler plate on a low heat for about 10 minutes, then turned the heat up added a drizzle of oil then put the onion slices and sliced red pepper on. The immediate infusion of the onion and pepper cooking is addictive. I left these to cook for about 3 minutes, turning them otherwise they will burn, then I added the lamb tikka and tossed the lot around the sizzler for about five minutes until the onions and peppers were cooked and the lamb was warmed through but not too much so as to dry it out."

not sure how long its been.

had other more pressing areas of interest:

1) learn flavor balance (976bar) on my non curry mains to get to a 10 on them
2) pizza get temp up from 300C to 400C targeting 2ish min bake and adopt poolish dough
3) meat oven slow cooking inspired by turkish lamb kuzu (cooked in tandoor)
4) crock pot curry suited work life and family, local takeaway suits my need for real stuff

these interest have come to an end and i need to bottom a few remaining curry niggles:

1) bbq lamb skewers ultimately to use my iff tikka on it along with herb mixes like turkisk and greek
2) on bir curry side revisit smoke and oil

best wishes you all

Haldi and curry2go have raised bhaji oil in past.

Ive had 2 goes using old oil from mainly chicken and chip frying.

On 1st go used too much and 2 nd too little.

Trouble is I will never get close to BIR stuff as I just don't make bhaji very often

Question is - could there be shortcut to making at home.

Would be interested in anyone who makes at home or has had taste of the real stuff.

i'm not sorry if i've caused alarm in geoff's post which got diverted to "empty vessels".

i have simply reported the truth - bigboaby1 if you read his posts was subjected to abuse. ive just pointed this out (and more importantly the loss to the site as a result that bigboaby1 has been forced into not replying in his posts)

the sooner we all start protecting members the better or better still stop aiming at 1 upmanship and just concentrate on the food.

has the world gone mad.

surely the bullies can't win in a fair and democratic society.

thought a picture view of a day in the life of the home BIR fan might help new starters and hopefully get other members to add insight into what they do differently.

if you've not realized already the prep for BIR is quite something. once done the cooking (of many dishes) is a breeze.

took a few pics on my last journey. main emphasis for me is on doing the same each time to ensure consistency. if i change anything then it's only 1 change at a time.

day1 - marinating


day2 - make base, bunjarra

day3 - cooking day

check stock level frozen items (fresh is best but frozen stuff is pretty close)


make the fresh stuff


measure out individual recipe ingredients




ready to cook

Article in local paper on a traditional Indian in Warrington caught my eye.

The food is really very good. I went chippy on way home and still paying off the credit card.

The list don't really do a lot for me but may be of help to others.

Til - sesame
Rai - brown mustard seed
Jeera - cumin
Cloves
Cinnamon 
Mace
Saffron
Hing
Imli - tamarind
Akroot - walnut
Chilli pwdr 
Coriander pwdr
Garam masala home made

Is anyone using akhini.

I use parker21 mouchak recipe and make 2 litres as the start point when making base.

I put 5g of cinnamon in a copy cat of harilor curry and was taken aback by how strong it tasted. I use just same amount in akhini for base and don't see the same strenght.

In short2 questions:
1) will the strength increase if the whole spice spends longer at a simmer. I currently gently simmer the akhini for 20 mins. The harilor curry whole spice probably cooked for 3 hrs. I guess im thinking tea bags

2) does anyone use a different mix to mouchak akhini

ave started this and hit difficulty and need some thoughts on what going wrong

I can add detail if needed.

in short have used onion, salt, oil, water to give a "base" to add spice 1 off at a time.

all goes well adding turmeric, cumin, coriander, chef masala, paprika. 

at this point the curry tastes pretty good. not BIR but the makings of.

it goes downhill very fast on adding curry powder. I'm using rajah hot madras which on it's own I'd thought tastes pretty good.

taking the ratio cumin:curry powder to 1:10 really demonstrates how bad a curry can get.

immediate thoughts:
1) curry powder is wrong type
2) perception of lot of curry powder in mix powder is wrong

any guidance appreciated

anyhow these are mine. what are yours. 

please object to my list if you want. this year I've taken blinkers off but won't be buying them again. they were a real nightmare

1) can't spell it - asophatida
2) fenugreek seed or powder
3) black mustard seed
4) panch puran
5) curry leaf
6) chilli pickle
7) mr nagga
8 ) shatkora jar by Pran (good brand too)

1st thought
has anyone compared bought packet ground and seed ground at home.

I've always used seed and ground it as and when needed thinking fresh is best.

just a thought but can't really see most BIR grinding their own given the amounts and effort needed.

question then comes - is there a difference in taste ie is packet ground needed or even "essential" to deliver BIR accurately.

2nd thought is cumin spicing taste of BIR.

when thinking of mix powder ingredients could you take all out with the exception of cumin.

or look at it another way make a mix powder without cumin and will it give BIR taste. take any other ingredient out and it probably will

does this sound potty. need a sanity check

How do best BIR do it 

I've posted this question before. This came of it:

1) heat destroys flavour - I've cut back on base time from 3 hrs to ~2 hrs. I aim to undercook at dish fry
2) clarity of taste - aim to add ingredients only once (not that easy but worth keeping in mind)
3) fresh is best - speaks for itself 
4) recipe refinement - small differences to key ingredients more critical than a complete set of ingredients

I'm still a long way short though.

Current focus is on how to get a better understanding of how spices work - what they bring to the curry

An example being how much turmeric in base - what's the optimum or envelope. Is it better in base or at dish fry.

Very quickly the picture becomes too big and not workable ie trial and error would take too much effort.

Any thoughts would be appreciated on all 3 questions:

1) how do best BIR do it
2) will "optimum" spicing make a difference
3) how best to explore spicing

If you have no interest in burners then not worth reading on.

As we know a very emotive subject. Do I care certainly not.

I do know my good friend rsholme123 despite knowing my product is not a fan.

What this shows is that we clearly have different needs. I see it as what we were brought up on.

Intro over. What's there to learn.

Had the opportunity to cook on another members burner with my own pan.

First impressions were the burner looked good - more than enough heat ~7.5kw.

I'm no expert. I just know I'm not looking to change what I have.

Something just did not feel right but could not put finger on it.

Eventually dawned - the height or gap between burner and pan bottom was quite a lot. In nutshell The flames did not wrap the pan rim.  

I suspect as a result the pan outside temp was not getting hot enough. From memory for me 230c.

In short the learning for me - the amount of heat is not the end game. The burner setup is more complicated than would be initially thought.

Just for info - did the burner produce BIR. No question Yes. It's just a question weather you are happy with the yes produced. If not reduce that gap somehow so the flame wraps the pan.

Ps for info flame was Bunsen burner blue and I now discount the flame colour/profile as Important

We know there is no such thing.

Occasionally each of us will come across something that was discounted or not even considered Important - only to find it hits us as a full on oversight.

On examples the biggest for me was salt.

For a while now I've been tasting rsholme123 curries.

In comparing what we do one thing that stands out is - sugar.

I was a complete disbeliever. I dont use it full stop. I do know it is called in many recipes (CA's jumping out for me). 

However since making chewy's red CTM I could not believe the difference 1 tsp makes (many makes side by side with and without sugar). I now include as STD in CTM.

Even more of a shock is that rsholme123 uses in madras. I'm reluctantly having to adjust my blinkers on sugar. 

Would be interesting to hear of any other similar.

I've always used same amount of mix for any dish. over time settled on 0.5 tsp per portion having used max 2 tsp.

The 0.5 tsp comes from perception of BIR (rsubtle spice with individual dish ingredients the differentiator)

Chewytikka red CTM got me questioning QTY. I've made this a lot for family who wanted a copy of what they get from 2 local restaurants. 

In short started off with no mix, then 0.5 tsp and fixed at 1 tsp. This only came about by making the dish a lot of times and the 'customer' input.

The question then is the QTY dish dependent and is there a rule of thumb. Typ

1) plain cream - high
2) plain curry - medium
3) complex - low

If Anyones got a better naming of the categories would appreciate as it would make the info more easier to apply/understand

Category 
a) plain cream 

 Korma, CTM, pasanda

b) plain curry

Madras, vindaloo, Bhuna, Dopiaza 

c) complex

Jalfrezi, patia, Rogan Josh, garlic

Have been dithering now for a couple of years now on what to do for pizza.

I have 2 home made WFO. One has too much top heat and the other too much bottom. They also take at least 2 hrs to hit temp.

My domestic elec oven is just about ok (550F) - tad too much bottom heat.

The UB post on the mesh and fire cement captured my mind thinking It could be fired by elec or wood.

I was also drawn on building new WFO.

In dithering I now find myself with an old elect oven to play around with. You can buy what I'm aiming at lincat ( what restaurants use).

If there's interest will add pic and report along the journey.

In short want independent top and bottom heat control and temp around 660F. Might even try for a naan capability ie tarva option.

Chillies - is there definitive use guide

A few recent posts have got me thinking I've still not done enough on chillies.

Yes I feel I know all that is available and would get high marks on a blindfold taste test.

Question is am I using the right chilli for the dish and at the right time in the dish fry.

This is my current thinking

1) green finger chilli

? base
? vindaloo (as part of sauce)
? as paste per Ashoka (add early or late if bought bottle)

2) green bullet chilli

? top dressing at end (sliced)
? madras added early

3) red fresh Kashmiri (finger??)

? vindaloo added early (per curry2go)

4) scotch bonnet

? convert to Tom sauce (use like mr nagga jar)
? produce lip burn in hot dishes

5) dried crushed extra hot red chillies

? add any dish increase heat in place of powder (medium hot)
? used in adil balti

6) dried whole red chillies (birds eye)

? can't really decide on these. Very nice flavour stinking hot but less than scotch bonnet. Used only in non curry.

7) dried whole kashmiri

Still to purchase

Any additions/corrections appreciated

the h4ppy-chris naan post has raised my game beyond expectation. i still have a fight with the amount of sugar but take it out and the magic is lost.

thing is though - i had some naan bread out at very posh restaurant. i have tasted this quality in the past (very few).

the topping i feel had something to do with the rating - i think garlic powder was added into the butter coating.

the bread part was though where the magic was - no sugar sweat just really light bread.

i know the tandoor will have an effect and that combination of the stone base and soft upper part make for a perfect combination.

the naan was thin but not crispy. gut feeling it was not SR flour.

any thoughts appreciated - specifically if anyone has tried h4ppy-chris method but adapted to yeast flour.

this being my best thought of a way forward