Hi all,

After a late finish last night and after reading some of the posts re pans, ladles, after 8's madras problem and vinda loos 99% success with the madras i decided to do something about it.

We were due in at 8am but i caught the chef at home at 7.30. We decided that after what we had to do it would be good to try the method posted so far with differing frying pans and simulate home cooking as most of you will do.

So after knocking on my neighbours door at 7.45am hoping i would not get a brick thrown at me, i came away with 2 of his wifes frying pans. A very thin one and a thicker tefal one.
And for being a nuisance told them they could have a free meal. I am so nice on a Sunday.

Anyway work completed, experimenting began. The thin pan first. Oh dear very difficult to control. It was to easy to over-cook ingredients especially garlic which burnt too easy. Over cooked to burnt garlic turns bitter. We did not put any meat in but first madras not the best.
Anyway after 3 more attempts and adjustments to times and heat. Hey presto result perfect.

Next up the tefal pan. It only took 2 attempts to get it right and a better pan for thickness. Still not as heavy or thick as the ones we use.

So into discussion we went and came up with the following.

1. Garlic can turn your curry bitter.
2. We tried some dried methi leaves instead of fresh ones. We knew it would not be as good but by soaking twice as many dried ones in water for a good 10 minutes then draining off the water got us very close.
3. That we would recommend a pan to people and we will get one too. We will cook all of the dishes that i post first in this pan. This will also provide a better feedback for us to solve anyones problems/results.
4. I will post an updated cooking methods post, Medium curry, Madras, vindaloo, phall and bhuna based on todays findings.
5. We will continue to post ladles but add the ml equivalent as well.

Hope this will help
Andy

Hi all,

Where do we put rice dishes. Need to know for Biryani as requested but want to list the rice seperately. Is it in supplementary recipes. Admin please advise

Regards

Andy

Hi all,

I have now posted,

Medium Chicken Curry
Chicken Madras
Chicken Vindaloo
Chicken Phall.

Of course the meat versions are the same. I can post them if you want. For prawn and king prawn slightly different method. I will post these seperately.

Could you please let me know what you want next, e.g. Pathia, Bhuna etc and i will post them in the order received. Dont want to post non-favourite dishes first.

Regards
Andy

Hi all,

Firstly thanks for all your emails. I have talked in length with owner and chefs and shown all of the emails i have received. They are happy to continue but would like to say that any comments good or bad re recipes are perfectly acceptable and will be responded to but personal comments wont be.
To me this site is there to enable people to construct indian food as they like to eat it from the takeaway or in the restaurant. Lets keep it that way.

Postings will continue as soon as.

Regards

Andy

Hi all,


First of all i have reversed my normal subject headings so that it is easy to see the actual subject first but have kept my 10 years ,,,etc signature.

Peoples perception of the BIR taste.

There is so much talk on here regarding not being able to get the bir taste. Whether it be points relating to the curry base, technique, final spices and methods etc.

Let me explain.

Having had 10 years relating to this industry there is NO SECRET INGREDIENT that people sometimes think is missing. No-one can suddenly come up with a bir tasting curry. There is a lot of experience involved in this game. The waiter for example could not just nip into the kitchens and cook you up a chicken madras. After some training then yes he could.

The posts i have posted to date i.e. Base/sauce/gravy, Methods, pre-cooked paste are exactly as we do them, nothing added, nothing left out.

However where things change and where the taste will change drastically is the fact that we get a fast turnaround of spices so they are always at their freshest. As spices date they change their flavour therefore changing the flavour of all the dishes they are used for.
Spices must always be fresh.

I have seen recipes on here relating to garam masala and comments like Natco's is the best etc. We do not buy in garam masala we make it. I will give you details later.

The same applies to curry masala. We do not buy in Rajah gold Madras and all that kind of stuff, we make it.

We do not have a single bought curry paste on the premises.

Spices too can kill the taste by overuse. Per example too much cumin and you will end up with yes a curry, but with the taste of a commercial shop bought powder or paste. I have seen loads of variations on here of ingredients for various dishes. With no disrespect to anyone there are some strange ones. Spices react with each other and it is only experience that learns you the reaction of such.

Your local bir works on speed and reputation for good food. If one of our chef's was having to make up pastes for this and pastes for that he would never get any orders out.
I am not saying that all bir's do not use pastes but we certainly dont apart from the pre-cooked paste previously posted.

With one chef we can produce 2 curries every 5 minutes. That is experience and technique.

We get comments from customers that say "That vindaloo was a lot hotter than last week". We have not added more chilli it is just that a new batch may be of a better quality.

The taste is also dependent what you are used to. Bir's do not produce the same taste.
Example a chicken madras from leeds is totally different to a chicken madras in Newcatle both in taste and looks. It the chef's interpretation.

There is no standard curry base that is written down and secretly passed around all the bir's. I have seen photographs on here of peoples final dishes. Some look really good, some not so good  but you cannot get a taste from a photo. It is guide to what it should look like.

A good bir depends on experience.

Keep up the good work its challenging.

Regards

Andy

Curry Cooking Methods.

I have written down the method that I and the chef uses at the take-away. This should help you understand the technique and the order in which ingredients are added.
I will be posting the individual curry recipes later as mentioned in the base sauce/ gravy.

Lets first describe the kitchen.

The cooker is an eight ring gas fired unit. On the left hand back ring is the large pot of hot oil. Next to it is the large pot of base sauce/gravy. To the right of the cooker is a stainless steel table with tubs of spices, fresh herbs etc.
Let me first say that the pot of hot oil as well as being used for curries etc. is also used, with the addition of a wire basket for the frying of onion bhaji?s, samosas, king prawn butterfly, chicken rolls, keema rolls and occasionally chips. The oil therefore is always getting infused with the release of spices from the above produces. Therefore the oil takes on a slight aromatic and smoky smell. It is topped up with fresh oil when it becomes too low for the wire basket to be able to fry the above.

Now on to a typical curry.

I will not list the individual spices as these will be posted later.

1)   The gas on one ring is turned full up.
2)   One ladle of oil is added to the frying pan. The pan is placed on the ring until the oil just starts to smoke. (By the way the oil is sunflower oil).
3)   2 chefs pinches of aromatic salt is added, ? of a chefs heaped spoon of very finely chopped onion is added along with a 2 chefs pinches of very finely chopped garlic and  a 2 chefs pinches of very finely chopped mixed red and green peppers. Very quickly and in a circular motion the back of the chefs spoon is pressed into the pan bottom effectively squeezing the pan ingredients. The ingredients are then tossed using the spoon. As the oil is so hot this takes only about 20 seconds as you will see the onions changing colour.
4)   Then the spices are added for the required dish, with chilli powder and a chefs pinch of fresh methi leaves added last along with a chefs pinch of asafoedita. The spices again are pressed into the pan as above and scraped across the pan with the edge of the spoon again for about 20 seconds(The scraping stops the burning of them)
5)   Then 1 ladle of base sauce/gravy is added and stirred in. When this bubbles a second ladle of base sauce/gravy is added and stirred.
6)   Depending on the smell at this point a chefs pinch of msg may or may not be added (experience of smell only tells)
7)   The meat is then added which is usually 10 cubes. Stirring continuously now to avoid sticking and to get the meat fully heated through.
   At approximately 5 minutes a teaspoon of pre-made cooked paste is added (recipe to follow) and stirred in immediately followed by a chefs pinch of chopped coriander leaves(cilantro) and stirred again.
9)   The pan is removed from the heat rested for 30 seconds and the curry is placed into the famous foil container with another pinch of chopped coriander leaves(cilantro), lid on and labeled. Hey presto all done. A quick rinse of the pan and onto the next order??.

Hope this helps with the procedure. Of course any questions please ask. The key is heat, speed, and the mastering of the use of the spoon to extract the aroma and flavour. Once you have cracked it, it will become second nature.

Regards
Andy

Hi all.

To continue from the base sauce/gravy.


The takeaway and restaurant list per example Chicken Madras or Meat Madras on the menu. The chicken is obvious but listing Meat gives them the option of using either mutton or lamb. The chicken and meat arrive pre-cubed in large plastic bags from the wholesale butcher.

Here is what happens:-

Towards the end of the evening 2 large saucepans are placed onto a work surface.
Into each saucepan is put 2 ladles of oil, 1 level tablespoon of turmeric and 1 level tablespoon of tomato puree, about 6 asian bay leaves and four finely chopped garlic cloves. Both are given a good stir to mix. Then the cubed chicken is added to one and the cubed meat to the other. Everything in the pans is tossed to coat the meats with the mixture. They are then lidded and left overnight in the cooler cabinet. This is to top up the already pre-cooked meat to the levels of what was started with at the beginning of the night. They calculate this by adding up the amount of dishes sold (simple).

The following day at around midday when the kitchen staff arrive 2 ladles of the base sauce/gravy which is obviously cold are added to each pan and stirred in.
Heat is applied to both pans constantly stirring. When boiling the heat is reduced to a simmer and boiling water is added to just cover the meat in both pans stirring to mix.

The chicken is left to simmer for approx 20 minutes and the chicken is skewered to ensure it is cooked. The heat is removed and the chicken is removed with a slotted chefs spoon to drain the fluid and placed in a container and left to cool.

The meat is left to simmer for approx 1 hour to obtain the tenderness. The heat is removed and the meat is removed with a slotted chef?s spoon and placed in a container and left to cool.

The Chef?s Note: The same measurements of turmeric, asian bay leaves, finely chopped garlic and tomato puree along with base sauce are used no matter how little or how much chicken and meat are being pre-cooked. The only variable is the water. I mentioned about other spices and he said no, no, no! The pre-cooked meat has to be used for dishes such as Korma and Passanda. No heat or spices he said.

So to the vegetables.

Potatoes.

These are cut into small cubes and simply boiled in Water with a touch of salt and a tablespoon of turmeric. Nothing more, nothing less. The potatoes are only just cooked so they remain solid without breaking up. They are then kept in the fridge for use.

Cauliflower.

Here frozen cauliflower florets are used and cooked exactly the same as the potatoes.

Next post very soon

Regards
Andy

Hi Everyone,

Finally got round to joining this site. A very good friend of mine has been running an indian tale-away and a seperate indian take-away/restaurant now for over 10 years. Being a curry lover myself, i have spent many many days and nights with him both learning, preparing, cooking (when staff were on holiday etc) his huge range of food from the menus over the last 10 years.

I have all the hand written recipes for all of the menu items as my memory could not remember on demand fast food cooking on busy nights.

Everything from the big pot of base sauce though medium curry, massala, vindaloo, madras, dansak, korma, patia, malayan, bhuna, rogan josh, dupiaza, sag, biryani, lankini, balti, jalfrezi, rices, side dishes, tikka, tandori, breads, starters, house specials and chefs specials etc etc etc...........

It is quite true to say that all can be reproduced at home if one has a tandoor of course or should i say most can be reproduced at home with very near tandoor produced items done in an oven/grill/pan.

There are of course methods adopted in the cooking to get that required consistant taste one expects and of course things like evaporated milk in Korma and tomato soup in chicken tikka massala and the very careful flavour enhancing in 90 per cent of all dishes.

When i get some time i will post some of the recipes and methods and i am sure you will all produce the right results.

Yummy

Andy....