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Author Topic: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?  (read 3,975 times)

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The discussion revolves around a cooking experiment where leftover Chicken Madras was combined with pre-cooked potatoes that had been flavored with panch phoran stock. The original poster, Phil, found that while the potatoes tasted good on their own, they did not complement the curry well, leading to a disappointing meal. Community members suggested that the robust spices of the Madras may have overpowered the subtle flavors of the potatoes, and some shared similar experiences with flavor clashes when mixing distinct dishes. Ultimately, there was no consensus on a definitive reason for the failure, but it was noted that combining different culinary elements can lead to unexpected results.

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Offline Peripatetic Phil

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An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« on: September 16, 2012, 08:36 PM »
Having about 50% of my Chicken Madras left over, and with a nice pack of small new potatoes, I thought I would pre-cook the potatoes and then add them to the curry while the latter was re-heated.  I pre-cooked the potatoes in a panch phoran stock, the panch phoran itself pre-fried in hot oil and then quenched with tomato puree and boiling water.  After 25 minutes I removed the saucepan from the heat and left the potatoes to cool (and absorb more flavour) in the panch phoran stock.  While the stock was still warm I removed the potatoes, cut them in half and tried one : it was delicious.  I tried another : the same.  So, I warmed the left-over Chicken Madras in the microwave oven for two minutes, transferred it to a pre-oiled wok, added the potato halves, basted the latter in the stock, then left everything to re-heat gently under glass while the pulao rice cooked (12 minutes in the microwave).  Then I served my dinner, really looking forward to what I thought of as a cross between a Chicken Madras and a Chicken Vindaloo.  Excited by the anticipation of the potatoes, I started with one, and was a little disappointed that it was not as good as I had expected; I ate some chicken and that was fine, just as good as the day the curry was first made. More potato, another negative experience : it just didn't taste right.  I finished the meal without a great deal of enthusiam, and tried to decide what had gone wrong : why did potatoes that tasted so good by themselves taste so "wrong" in the Madras sauce.  In the end, I decided I didn't know, whence this post : can anyone suggest why this particular combination was so unsuccessful ?

** Phil.
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Offline Secret Santa

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Re: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2012, 08:49 PM »
Surely it's just the subtle flavouring of the spuds being overpowered by the robust spicing of the madras?
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Offline Peripatetic Phil

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Re: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2012, 09:04 PM »
Quote from: Secret Santa on September 16, 2012, 08:49 PM
Surely it's just the subtle flavouring of the spuds being overpowered by the robust spicing of the madras?
Maybe.  The impression I had while eating the potatoes (in the curry, not before) is that the two sets of spices were simply incompatible -- panch phoran should, perhaps, be reserved for pure vegetable dishes and not allowed to come into conflict with (e.g.,) Bassar curry masala ...  If it were just a question of "the subtle flavouring of the spuds being overpowered by the robust spicing of the madras", could a Vindaloo ever work ?  The potatoes in that will still have "a subtle flavouring", albeit not a spicy one (does anyone pre-cook potatoes for Vindaloo in a spiced-based liquid ?) and will therefore also be capable of being overpowered ...

** Phil.
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Offline 976bar

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Re: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2012, 09:38 PM »
I would only imagine that the pre-cooked potatoes in a vindaloo are just simply boiled potatoes and not simmered in any kind of stock.....

I'm also thinking that the addition of Panch Poran is a modern technique, as I have not encountered it in a BIR style curry from the 70's or 80's.... maybe I am wrong and again it is a regional variance....
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Offline Peripatetic Phil

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Re: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2012, 09:55 PM »
Quote from: 976bar on September 16, 2012, 09:38 PM
I would only imagine that the pre-cooked potatoes in a vindaloo are just simply boiled potatoes and not simmered in any kind of stock.....
Yes, that was my impression, too, but never having actually cooked a Vindaloo other than Cory Anders (from which I omitted the potatoes), it was really just a feeling rather than something for which I had any evidence.

QuoteI'm also thinking that the addition of Panch Poran is a modern technique, as I have not encountered it in a BIR style curry from the 70's or 80's.... maybe I am wrong and again it is a regional variance....
I don't know if PP had any role in BIR cuisine; I learned of its use from Axe in an off-line discussion about sag aloo, and I believe he learned of it from CBM -- but in the sag aloo it worked very well indeed, which is why I hoped that success would carry over into the Chicken (not-vind)aloo ...  Sadly it was not to be.

** Phil.
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Offline Salvador Dhali

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Re: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 12:34 PM »
Coincidentally enough I did the very same thing over the weekend. I'd made a vindaloo and just happened to have some potatoes I'd prepared for a Bombay Aloo, using the method from CBM's book, so thought "Hmm... those will do nicely".

And they did.

But I did detect a slight clash of flavours betyween the vindaloo sauce and the potatoes, which I put down to the presence of fenugreek and fennel seeds in the panch phoran (bitter and aniseed respectively).

I wouldn't call it a failure, but that said I probably won't do it again. Essentially, you're mixing together two very distinct and individually balanced dishes that are meant to be enjoyed as such. It wouldn't matter if the cuisine was French or Italian - if you were to add something from a side dish to the main, it would alter it completely.

Of course, there's always the possibility of chancing upon an improvement. After all, without experimenting we wouldn't have some of the great dishes that exist today.

But I'll be sticking to my usual method for cooking potatoes for vindaloo, which is in salted water with a little turmeric for colour. 
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Offline Peripatetic Phil

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Re: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 08:45 PM »
Well, tonight I cooked sag aloo, in which the panch phoran potatoes were just fine, but I also hoiked the potatoes out of the curry and was going to bin them as they had tasted so bad yesterday; however, when I tried them cold, they tasted very pleasant, and I ended up rescuing them from the food waste bin and eating them !

** Phil.
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Offline solarsplace

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Re: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 09:41 AM »
Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 17, 2012, 08:45 PM
...snip... I ended up rescuing them from the food waste bin and eating them !

** Phil.

Phil, do you mean that you saved them from being put into the food waste bin or that they had been discarded into the food waste bin and that some time later you retrieved them from the bin and consumed them?

I really hope its the former ;)

Cheers
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Offline Peripatetic Phil

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Re: An unexpected failure : what lessons can be learned ?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 10:02 AM »
Quote from: solarsplace on September 18, 2012, 09:41 AM
Phil, do you mean that you saved them from being put into the food waste bin or that they had been discarded into the food waste bin and that some time later you retrieved them from the bin and consumed them?  I really hope its the former ;)

'fraid it was the latter, SP !  I think the old saying about having to eat a peck of dirt before you die is very true, and whilst I (probably) wouldn't want to eat food out of someone else's food waste bin unless I were starving, I don't have the same compunctions about my own because I know exactly what I have put in it and when.  In this case the potatoes were resting on a used coffee filter paper put in earlier that day, and had only been there for a couple of minutes, so to my mind they were still fine for personal consumption.

** Phil.
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