A little nugget from Jb's and my local BIR

[curryhell]

Was in one of my favourite BIR's last night,  as was Jb on Friday.  The lads are always keen to talk about our facination with BIR cooking and find it quite strange that we should have such a fixation with it.  Quite normal for us I thought :.
Anyway we got talking somehow on the subject of lamb tikka.  I moaned that i was quite disappointed about the local halal butcher / convenience store closing, making way for a "new" large BIR which was causing a little unrest in the camp as it was just up the road literally.  I continued on saying that i would now have to travel further afield to get my halal mutton.   The manager piped up "why do you use halal"? and then revealed his supplier was a local English guy and he would be more than happy to get some mutton for me   RESULT I thought to myself.  I'll be going in to collect it on Sunday
Anyway the discussion continued about mutton tikka and i said i never cooked it or ate it as it could always be a bit on the chewy side. He agreed but then went on to reveal what the chef does in the restaurant to get round this problem
The mutton tikka is actually cooked on the stove in the marinade and then finished when required in the tandoor to give the smokey taste and charred look.  I was a bit gobsmacked by this but there's more.
He asked me if i had heard of karela.  The word was familiar so i'd obviously read about it somewhere.  He then proceded to tell me that in order to soften the mutton during the cooking process this was added to the pot.  BINGO !!!  He then went off to the kitchen and appeared with a frozen pack of the stuff and showed it to me.  Straight away i recognised it as a gourd of some kind.  When in season they use fresh but out of season they resort to frozen.  Funnily enough when i re-read 976's thread on his mutton tikka i came across this comment from Dalpuri:

I read a tip on the other site about using mashed kiwi fruit as a tenderiser for mutton.
Certainly a lot easier to source than papaya 
Maybe start with half a kiwi fruit in the tikka marinade to see how it affects the flavour and texture.
For me personally, i like some bite to my lamb tikka rather than melt in the mouth.

Frank. 

Not that different from what i had just been told :

Rest assured i will probe further when i go in to get my mutton on Sunday.  I think it's a case of who can get in their kitchen first, jb or me :

[DalPuri]

They make a bitter melon curry in the Lahore tooting. Delicious 

Didn't know about tenderising though.  Good tip.
So whichever you see first when you want soft mutton without the need for powders...
Papaya, Kiwi or Karela.

[curryhell]

Long overdue a visit to Tooting.  When i was there regularly there were no curry houses.  That tells you how long ago that was!!!
The karela doesn't feature on their menu at all.  It would seem as though it's used purely as a tenderising agent.  Apparently, this was suggested to the restaurant chef by some big noise chef that helped them out with designing their menu.  I'll definitely be giving it a go.  As well as tenderising it's obviously going to add a bittering note just as lemon or yoghurt would do.  Would be great to crack this one

[vinders]

What a fascinating find. I'm really looking forward to hearing more.

In the meantime, the reference to karela rang a bell. I realized I had come across a couple of recipes last week that use karela (though not as a tenderiser) in D. Lowe and M. Davidson's 100 best balti curries

[jb]

Excellent detective work Curryhell.I was actually thinking about doing some lamb tikka for my upcoming curry feast,however I've never been able to do it properly so far and it always ends up being tough,no matter how long I marinate it for or indeed what sort of  lamb or mutton cut I use.

They are a great bunch of blokes in the restaurant(one even did the taxi service for us on Friday!).You're right they do find our fascination with BIR strange,however if anyone thinks that the guy you spoke to was for some reason trying to fool you then have a look at my comments within this thread from back in March....

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8047.msg80059#msg80059

I asked the same question and was given the same answer,the meat is cooked first and then finished in the tandoor.Just to clarify what exactly is it they use? frozen papaya or kiwi?

This guy has an interesting video on the subject...

http://www.bharatchannels.com/vahchef/meat-tenderizer-video_208f5daa0.html

[Peripatetic Phil]

I asked the same question and was given the same answer,the meat is cooked first and then finished in the tandoor.Just to clarify what exactly is it they use? frozen papaya or kiwi?

I think it's neither, from what Curryhell reported; rather it is karela, or bitter melon.
** Phil.

[curryhell]

That's right Phil, Karela or bitter melon.  One of these little blighters.  The frozen pack he showed me were sliced.





I'll see what more i can find out when i go in on Sunday.

[jb]

That's right Phil, Karela or bitter melon.  One of these little blighters.  The frozen pack he showed me were sliced.





I'll see what more i can find out when i go in on Sunday.

I was in this place last night and he showed me a frozen packet of this,very strange looking stuff indeed.He said I could have some when I cook my next batch of lamb tikka.I was trying to persuade him that he should get together with his chef and produce a recipe book,something along the likes of Abdul's or CBM's.He actually thought it was a good idea so watch this space!!

[curryhell]

I keep 'em peeled jb.  Would be good if you could get some sort of recipe for doing the lamb  tikks.  I'll try next time i'm in there Fresh bitter melon available in the cool store in the Asian shop next door along with other bits like chilli, okra, coriander, mooli, saag, fenugreek etc 

[Malc.]

I was actually thinking about doing some lamb tikka for my upcoming curry feast,however I've never been able to do it properly so far and it always ends up being tough,no matter how long I marinate it for or indeed what sort of  lamb...

JB,

Pop into your local butcher and ask for lamb rump, I promise you'll never struggle with tough lamb tikka again.

As for the Karela, i'm sure i've seen these in our local ASDA. I could be wrong about that,  but they are certainly odd looking. Interested to hear how you get on with it CH.