Topic: Recipe Refinement

[JerryM]

for myself i don't feel there's much to be gained in looking into my outstanding "areas" of uncertainty or call it gap.

i feel time is better spent thinking about how over the winter to carryout what i call "recipe refinement".

i see this as fine tuning recipes that we already have but making them as close as possible to BIR.

to be able to do this i feel i need to get a better understanding of how the various ingredients affect the dish outcome - the amount of mix powder used is a glowing example.

i've set out a few of my initial thoughts along with a starting point for ingredient list. any thoughts appreciated for pondering over the summer months.



1st stab at ingredient list which needs some work on:
1.      almond powder
2.      butter (marg, ghee)
3.      coconut (flour, milk, block)
4.      coriander (fresh chopped)
5.      cream (UHT single)
6.      fruit (banana, mango)
7.      garlic (chopped/sliced & pre fried)
8.      green chilli (paste and sliced)
9.      honey
10.  lemon juice (lemon dressing)
11.  mango chutney
12.  garden mint (colemans)
13.  methi (dried)
14.  mixed pickle
15.  oil (mustard)
16.  green pepper (finely chopped,sliced)
17.  rose water
18.  sugar
19.  tomato (fresh)
20.  yogurt
21.  vegetable

ps the dish stages being: oil, spice, base, finish

[Peripatetic Phil]

I too am planning to re-visit what I do, Jerry, but in what I regard as a simpler and more straightforward manner.  You may remember that some time back I reported on making a curry using BIR technique (and hence, base) but using only a good curry powder as the spicing.  The results, you may recall, were that the curry was very acceptable, and infinitely better than I remember from my naive pre-BIR days.  So, my plan is to start from there, but to add just one additional spice (or well-defined spice mix) at a time, so my first refinement beyond "base + curry powder" will be "base + curry powder + Kasmiri mirch".  I may then repeat substituting first Deggi mirch and then Bassar curry masala for the Kashmiri mirch, and once I feel I understand those better I will next add cumin and so on.  Obviously each variant may require more than one trial (e.g., I may add too much cumin, and need to repeat with less, and so on) but in the end I hope to gain a real understanding of what each spice contributes, both in isolation and in combination with others.

** Phil.

[Malc.]

Hi Jerry, is there meant to be anything under the column headings, as I can only see the headings followed by a gap and then your 1st stab ingredient list?


Where do you use honey and rose water?

[Peripatetic Phil]

Hi Jerry, is there meant to be anything under the column headings, as I can only see the headings followed by a gap and then your 1st stab ingredient list?

I see a whole spreadsheet-style graphic, Malc :

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/965f97a4326c8bc30de7f9dfceb918a2.bmp

** Phil.

[Peripatetic Phil]

So as not to hijack Jerry's thread, I have started one of my own which I will populate with reports of my own experiments in recipe refinement.  Tonight's curry (all will be basically a Chicken Madras, +/-) is now reported here.

** Phil.

[Ramirez]

Good post Jerry.

For some time now I feel as though I've plateaued and not really making any progress, almost to the point of losing interest. For me, I think I need to go back to basics, but I am not sure if that will really achieve anything. I think my technique is fine, but the resultant curries never quite cut it for me. Other say my dishes taste better than a BIR, which to them may be true, but I feel my curries lack authenticity while tasting nice.

Things I need to experiment with :

• Tomato puree - go back to using white tower and try the addition of tandoori masala
• Spice mix - been using BE spice mix for a while, but want to start experimenting again
• Gas cooking - desperate to try this, but wil probably have to go down the burner route
• Ashoka - want to revisit these dishes and the use of bunjarra

[JerryM]

Phil,

much appreciate you putting the link in for the spreadsheet rows - i don't know why it shows up all ok for me and not for others. i'll try to get future into a jpg as these work fine for proper pics.

way forward?

i'd be very happy to explore options on how to move forward. i've pretty much exhausted ideas on how to improve my efforts - hence i think it can only be in the recipe (i've discounted the rest albeit through trial and error using side by side comparison).

Phil's idea of substitution is sort of along the lines i had in mind but not to repeat ground already covered. given what Phil lists as examples - then perhaps the ingredient list needs to change or grow ie so we can all share what we know say about kashmiri, deggi & bassar as just a few examples.

it's that "plateaued" that Ramirez describes which sums it up.

the column "affect on taste" was key to my thought process. by better understanding what each dish ingredient  does. the "amount" or strength was what i was getting at.

the best example i can pick is mix powder. it's probably the most complicated too. why do large amounts and small amounts get used. i'm 100% sure we can't answer the question directly. i don't see any other way of getting to the answer than by getting a better understanding of what it does and how it does it - in short - affect on taste.

a more simpler example is g/g paste. i now firmly believe they are needed separately or certainly garlic on it's own.

i know from past experience we won't all agree. i see the way through this being to document all views - this lets the user make there own mind up but with the benefit of an informed choice.

i'm also not averse to each doing there own to suit there own particular needs and then reporting back.

we perhaps just need to give it some thought so that we can all work off the same hymn sheet - plugging in the knowledge that our various members have already mastered.

fingers crossed.

[JerryM]

Axe,

the rose water (it may even be kewra) is something i've not yet tried but have it on the list at some point - i believe it's used in korma.

the honey i use in butter chicken and is another example of why i need recipe refinement. i use golden syrup in red masala and mango chutney in some dishes). what i'd like to work out is which of these produces best BIR result and does it differ for different dishes or does one rule suit all.

[JerryM]

have added below what i see as the 2nd stage to give full picture of what i have in mind. the 1st stage being the ingredient "rule set" ie the fully completed table in the original post.

the 2nd stage intent being to buy a BIR dish and do side by side compare with my current recipe. i'd then use the rule set as a guide on what recipe changes to make to move closer to the BIR dish. making several variants and only changing 1 off variable at a time.

by then moving successively through the BIR menu i'm hoping some common denominators will surface.

although it may sound a tad daunting i only really need help on getting the rule set in place. the 2nd stage i'm happy to plod on through the winter months.

i'm also only really looking for some very fine tuning - sort of the jump from very good to best.

obviously if anyone has any better ideas i have my blinkers off.

ps in short i feel i have all the jigsaw pieces - they may just be a tad too big or too small or in the wrong place

[JerryM]

Phil's work has prompted me to post where i've got to on the recipe list. it's draft and i intend to ponder over the remainder of the summer to try and focus on what to try during the side by side comparisons.

any thoughts appreciated.