Topic: What do we know about oil in BIR's

[JerryM]

George got me thinking in his post about how to analyse oil. Haldi then added to my thoughts and felt it would be good to get others observations on what BIR's do with their oil (George/Haldi org post http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8269.msg73701#msg73701):

I find the fact that the missing taste/smell, can't be nailed down, extremely upsetting

I too am reluctantly starting to think this may be difficult to nail down.

I am now sure it is to do with the oil (and delivered through the base).

I'm also referring to best BIR curries not the norm.

i've pretty much come to Haldi's conclusion. i'm 100% confident that improvement does not sit with the following:

1) recipe fresh ingredients
2) frying the spices

I think we need to know more about how oil is treated in a BIR. from when it enters the shop to when it leaves in the container. how it gets into the base and when it comes out. we can fill in from our learning what most of the journey is but i'm sure we don't know the full story.

we individually must know a few of the pieces that collectively we can put some better understanding on.

i know many say fresh oil. ok.

curry2go says bhaji oil. zaal says veg ghee.

my local TA take it off the top of the base. nagging at the back of my mind is what they do as the base lowers in the stock pot - not as easy to scoop or if the dreaded happened - no more oil on the top to chef spoon off.

this picture below by Mark J wraps the whole problem up for me (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=782.msg7237#msg7237)

then to add insight artistpaul puts lian into the frame as the starting point for Chinese (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg44462#msg44462)



what i do know is my reclaimed oil tastes pretty good. it's not as good as i tasted in the sample of BIR base.

ps the way i feel is best to taste compare the oil is to freeze and then wet finger taste the surface.

all thoughts appreciated.

[Razor]

Hi Jerry, thanks for your thoughts.

I honestly think that searching for the 'secret ingredient' within oil, is a red herring.  It most definitely plays it's part and without it, we couldn't achieve that BIR aroma but it's what you add to it that creates the taste, and not what you add it to!

 I also think that we have to be careful in trusting our noses when trying to identify 'that' aroma!

I have to admit, when I'm in the full throws of a BIR cooking session, I can not separate individual smells and it takes me at least a good hour to recover.  Unfortunately, I have previously thought a curry left to stand, helps develop the flavour and the aroma, and to some extent, I would say that still stands but I'm leaning more towards the fact that the 'standing' time is more beneficial to me than it is of the curry.  My senses recover and I can actually taste the dish in all it's glory.

Now, spoon off some of the oil made in that dish, and set it aside or in the fridge.  Take it out and have a smell.  To me, it absolutely smacks of that BIR aroma, so for me, the aroma is created at the frying stage and not so much in the base.  I don't really subscribe to Julians theory of using seasoned (bhaji) oil, as I think the oil's flavour is too subtle to come through in a 10lt + size base.  Of course, I will be in a better position to comment after my visit to c2g in June.

For me, it's spices (ground or whole) tempered in oil that creates the aroma with the addition of the garlic and ginger and of course, the onion contained in the base gravy. I just feel that as we are cooking our dishes, we don't always realise it.

Ray

[laynebritton]

For me, it's spices (ground or whole) tempered in oil that creates the aroma with the addition of the garlic and ginger and of course, the onion
Ray

*cough cough*
Deep Frying "Onion bhaji's" will do exactly that to the oil Ray 
cheers
Layne

[natterjak]

What are we actually tasting when we take a mouthful of our finished curry? I mean what wraps itself around your tongue and transmits the flavours to your taste buds?  More than anything else I'd say it's the oil. It makes a lot of sense therefore that a curry would improve from one day to the next, or even in 10 mins standing time after cooking. Whatever helps the flavours of the spices, the natural sugars from frying the onions, etc dissolve into the oil will in theory help the flavour of the oil.

In a restaurant there's usually an interval between your curry being cooked and making it onto your table and a takeaway has a time delay before it reaches you.

[George]

I honestly think that searching for the 'secret ingredient' within oil, is a red herring.

I disagree with you for once, and think Jerry's thoughts and ideas are spot-on. I reckon most of the special aroma is in the oil, so the question then becomes "how does it get there?"

I think a lot of places MIGHT be economical with the truth. Didn't the Fleet chef say he uses only fresh oil in a base? i wonder!

[Aussie Mick]

I must say that yesterday I cooked onion bhajis for the first time since I discovered this site. So, i thought I would cook some curries using the bhaji oil to see what all the fuss was about.

So far, i have only used fresh canola or sunflower oil to cook curries and I have been very happy with the results.

We had a few mates over last night, so i cooked up 6 curries with the bhaji oil. Now, maybe I had been "spiced out" with cooking, but I can honestly say that for me personally, I will stick to using fresh oil for each curry. I didn't notice any difference at all. Like I say, my tastebuds were probably shot because of cooking up 6 ruby's, but I didn't enjoy the food as much as normal.

My mates all seemed to enjoy them, in fact I know they enjoyed them, so..............who knows.

Next time I will cook up just one curry and try it with the bhaji oil, just to satisfy my curiosity, but, unless it really does say something, I am gonna stick to fresh oil each time.

Just the thought of using old oil turns me off the food straight away. I know my parents used to cook chips in lard that had been used dozens and dozens of times, and they tasted better the older the lard got, but....seriously, they didn't know about trans fats and other nasty stuff back then.

Surely, old oil that has been heated and cooled, and cooked other stuff several times is not healthy?

Just my thoughts.

[laynebritton]

Having read most or perhaps all of the posts here regarding "Spiced or Bhaji Oil"
it's obvious everyone has totally different opinions on the subject

and hey wouldn't it be a strange old world if everyone agreed on something eh

Anyway just thought I'd post a pic of my "Bhaji or Spiced Oil" = Pure Liquid Gold 
(in the plastic is a Curry sauce using the Oil) it's bloody lovely

Using "Fresh Oil" my Curries have a completely different taste smell and appearence !!!
just my opinion guys
cheers
Layne

[emin-j]

Having read most or perhaps all of the posts here regarding "Spiced or Bhaji Oil"
it's obvious everyone has totally different opinions on the subject

and hey wouldn't it be a strange old world if everyone agreed on something eh

Anyway just thought I'd post a pic of my "Bhaji or Spiced Oil" = Pure Liquid Gold 
(in the plastic is a Curry sauce using the Oil) it's bloody lovely

Using "Fresh Oil" my Curries have a completely different taste smell and appearence !!!
just my opinion guys
cheers
Layne

God ! thats a Heart attack in a tub 

[laynebritton]

God ! thats a Heart attack in a tub 

Yep just the way I like it

Everyone's gotta die sometime !

But what a wonderful way to go eh killed by eating Curry ha ha ha
cheers
Layne
 

[emin-j]

I must say that yesterday I cooked onion bhajis for the first time since I discovered this site. So, i thought I would cook some curries using the bhaji oil to see what all the fuss was about.

So far, i have only used fresh canola or sunflower oil to cook curries and I have been very happy with the results.

We had a few mates over last night, so i cooked up 6 curries with the bhaji oil. Now, maybe I had been "spiced out" with cooking, but I can honestly say that for me personally, I will stick to using fresh oil for each curry. I didn't notice any difference at all. Like I say, my tastebuds were probably shot because of cooking up 6 ruby's, but I didn't enjoy the food as much as normal.

My mates all seemed to enjoy them, in fact I know they enjoyed them, so..............who knows.

Next time I will cook up just one curry and try it with the bhaji oil, just to satisfy my curiosity, but, unless it really does say something, I am gonna stick to fresh oil each time.

Just the thought of using old oil turns me off the food straight away. I know my parents used to cook chips in lard that had been used dozens and dozens of times, and they tasted better the older the lard got, but....seriously, they didn't know about trans fats and other nasty stuff back then.

Surely, old oil that has been heated and cooled, and cooked other stuff several times is not healthy?

Just my thoughts.

Hi Mick, it takes the frying of many many Bhaji's to reach the level of flavour required