Topic: What do we know about oil in BIR's

[JerryM]

i feel it's not been a good week. the oil seems very stubborn at taking on the spice. either the microwave bake till the oil is warm (3 min on bake) is not enough or the chef garam is useless.

i really can't believe the chef garam is in fact useless as a wet finger taste of the powder suggests it's not bad - just needs a tad refining "balancing". i also use the chef garam for pilau rice and that seems very good.

so i think before i can make progress i need to up the heat on the oil.

Les's recent post "Chinese Scented Oil" (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8397.msg74210#msg74210) is a real savior. going to follow the principle next week and sort of repeat this weeks efforts.

this week i've had 3 samples on the go:

1) oil, chef garam, lime juice - just left all week except for daily shake
2) oil, chef garam x 5 - left all week except for daily shake
3) oil, chef garam x1 - heated each day and 4 off lots of garam added in total.

observation No 3 (not confident and need to repeat but with higher oil temp)

"increasing" the amount of spice in the oil makes a difference (visible even in the colour of the oil). the range is short ie adding lots more spice does not mean lots more flavour.

contrary to what i've experienced in the past the "carryforward" of the oil did not seem to make any difference to just adding more at the start.

next week: going to heat 1 off garam sample as per the Chinese method. also going to switch to using individual spice.

i'm also curious about citric acid. the lime juice did affect the taste but the "lime" taint made assessment too difficult. citric acid is something i've seen a lot in stores but still not worked out what it's used for.

[JerryM]

have had good week and essentially feel at rest on this topic although i still have much to do.

i would normally do as much research before starting out. on this topic i've allowed myself to blinker off in any direction that seemed useful.

by mid week i felt road end. i've tried everything i can think of to get taste into oil. consequently decided to swot up and see if my conclusions matched with www. they do.

in a nut shell only essential oils are dissolvable in oil and they take weeks to fully dissolve. from what i've seen heat does not play a part otherthan to release the essential oil in the spice. crossed my mind to even buy a few of these oils in bottles but just can't see BIR doing this.

i'm going to switch to water to assess the individual spices. any thoughts on anything missing and worth trying appreciated:

bay, green cardamom, black cardamom, anis, fennel, aniseed, cinnamon, casia, black pepper, cumin

overview of this weeks tribulations:

have used Les's idea. used my new zaal omelet pan (it tips up so ideal for heating small amounts). have stuck thermometer in the oil and tried out various whole spice and various temp.

the citric acid did nothing (parked). shop manager said to use in naan for lift (not rise) and have done so but did not see a difference - need to try adding a tad more. for those who know sherbet - citric acid is along those lines - gives a real zing on the tongue.

observation 4

spices burn at around 120C. my thermometer limit was 100C. they burn quickly and in oil impossible to control without (as we know quenching).

observation 5

unless the essential oils have been released the taste in oil is poor. weeks are needed to get strength.

[Les]

Hi Jerry
As this experiment doesn't seem to be working for you, Does this mean that Vong's method of spiced oil doesn't work?

Les

[JerryM]

Les,

for sure the experiment has not gone the way i was hoping. i don't know if Vong's method works or not (i think it will for his use as i think water must be present).

i'm sort of keeping myself restrained so to speak (within a fix envelope). i don't want to make spiced oil. i reclaim the oil from the base just before blending (simply pour it off). although the oil tastes pretty good it's not as good as my local TA,

in a nutshell i want to make my reclaimed oil as good but still making it as part of the base.

i've had observation in the past that by recycling the reclaimed oil into the next base the strength improves. at the time i had other gaps and parked it. now i need to return and bottom it.

one thing i've now cottoned onto is this need to cook the whole spice to released the oils. currently in using the tgad2007 approach of oven roasting i use 60C for ~8hrs. i now realise this is too low and needs to be at least 80C and possible 100C (but no higher).

in comparing the tgad2007 chef garam with the zaal and knowing now of the ifindforu jalpur i felt none are quite right in terms of composition. when i make pilau rice i add some of the chef garam to the water and it infuses very quickly (15mins simmer) and gives good strength - hence i intend to use water to try and improve the chef garam taking the best from tgad, zaal & jalpur. the jalpur might even be the finished item - i don't know and need to confirm either way.

i then intend to up the amount of oil i use for base so that i have leftover that can be frozen and recycled into the next base. i currently use ~500ml per 800g onion (9 portions) and try to reclaim over 400ml. i'm thinking of upping the oil to say 1L aiming to reclaim 900 of which 500ml to freeze and 400ml for dish frying.

hope this all makes sense. it's not easy for me to explain as i've not really got a good handle on what to do only what the finish point is.

for info the reason for the oil importance is that i've looked at all my possible gaps and feel this could have the biggest impact from continually comparing my efforts and those from my fav top notch BIR's.

[Les]

Makes perfect sense Jerry, If nothing else at least you are persistant ;D
Hope you get to where your going.

Les

[JerryM]

have tried "akhni" method on individual spice.

then tried to apply ranking based on strength and flavour (not easy - some spice being harder than others to judge).

having picked up in the BE pdf on "bhaji base" have adapted the alarmist10 bhaji idea further in order to make it simply to test out the findings in terms of "chef garam". so going to put in a pan chopped onion, "test chef garam", oil, water to cover - simmer till dry.

the "test chef garam" is likely to start out with 1 off whole spice and then gradually add in using the identified ranking. once happy i'll make a roast version "tgad" and try it out for real.

the only dark cloud is the colour which is disappointing "show stopper". all of the whole spice produce a dark colour. they are a long way from layne's gold.

a comment i picked up in the BE pdf, "large karai type vessel full of oil" sort of also raises same question.

for the 1st time i think there may be 2 parts to the end point that i'm after. i am in no doubt that the chef garam needs to be right and i'm happy feeling i'm on the right track. this looks like it won't sort the oil question though. i've wrestled in the past with red, yellow and dark oil - which is right.

it really does come back to the original question which has not been answered - if BIR's have big vessels full of "spice" oil - what colour is it. if this is the case why does my local TA not have same and takes from the top of the base to start each dish. how do they then make sure they never run out of spiced oil.


----
ranking for info:
Rating   Spice
1   Black Cumin
2   Asian Bay
3   Jalpur
4   Cardamom green
5   Anis
6   Cinnamon
7   Aniseed
8   Cardamom black
9   Panch puran
10   my tgad/Zaal mix
11   Fennel
12   Casia

for info clove is missing and not sure to add. it's quite predominant in jalpur more than black cardamom

for info pic of akhni method (80 to 90 C for 5 mins) ps 90C produces significantly better result

[JerryM]

have split the ranked list into 3 categories:

1) - top 4 excluding jalpur
2) - the jalpur
3) - the rest

used the "BE bhajis base" (essentially bhuna method) to taste test the 3 off categories. 1 & 2 tasted very good, no changes needed. Category 3 tasted poor - it had a dryness taste coming through which needs the particular spice identifying before deciding further. initial view would be to ditch the particular spice it's that severe.

the "test chef garam" composition so far being equal proportions Black Cumin, Asian Bay, Jalpur, Cardamom green.

BE bhaji base recipe for info:

chopped onion 100g
veg oil 15ml
water 100g
test whole spice (typ 1/4 tsp per ground spice)
method - essentially bhuna ie frequent stirring until water gone and 1st whiff of spice burn.


L to R - Category 1 , 2 & 3

[h4ppy-chris]

 Jerry i don't know if this will help you.
when i had my evening on Monday at the bir take away i asked about the seasoned oil how he makes it.
i was told it was made by cooking the spices that was to go into the base gravy, then spooned off. i asked just to taste the oil and dipped a chip into it, the main flavor i could not put my finger on. then as he was cooking bang there it was really well cooked garlic.
he only added the seasoned oil to the pan just before he put it in the foil tray.

[Naga]

I admire your tenacity and stamina in trying to achieve your goal, Jerry. I know, for sure, I couldn't devote this level of attention, but I'm really looking forward to your final findings. More power to your elbow (and those of the other contributors!).

[JerryM]

h4ppy-chris,

fascinating. can i just be sure on what he said. he makes seasoned oil and removes the spices presumably whole by "spooning them off". the seasoned oil was then a late addition at dish frying.

it's particularly interesting as i've just finished reading that BE pdf (need to post - talks about making tarka oil). i've also moved on a tad and made base using the new chef masala. only trouble was that i messed up on the amount of oil and ended up with only 50ml (i've been trying to get a norm so i can weigh oil instead of measure by volume - i just got the maths wrong way round).

anyhow these 2 things got me thinking of trying to make seasoned oil. i just still can't answer the question in my head - what happens when the oil on top of the base runs short in BIR. there must be a fallback. it's no good just switching to a new pot of base as it just pushes the shortage further down the line and JIT (just in time) complexity is 1 thing BIR's certainly don't adopt.

i see the "trying to make" being like BE suggests ie a tarka of say oil, tom puree and chef garam. the method being to gentle raise the temp of the oil with all the ingredients added. garlic & perhaps ginger would fit the bill too.

will post update at weekend when more time - euro's taking priority

Naga - many thanks appreciated. i do love my curry and remain devoted to both TA and Restaurant meals. making it yourself to that standard adds a whole new meaning to it all - you can effectively taylor recipes to exactly how you like then with total consistency. the effort is well worth it.