Topic: Az student takes his first steps into the unknown

[curryhell]

Hi CH so do u thInk u can replicate at home then 100%???

With a lot more practice Gazman and once the technique becomes second nature, rather than having to work on it, i'd say we're going to be at least 95%+ there.  I always like to leave room for improvement  .  As Az said, "you can do it home, it just takes longer" unless you happen to have a stove like his in your kitchen, which i don't

[natterjak]

The house has that smell again ;D
<snip>

Come on lads, get singeing.  I'm dying to hear other's results

Hi CH. I've been tinkering away with a couple of attempts at a pseudo-Roshney but I could probably be sued for using the name Roshney for the dishes I've cooked as they have had significant variances from Az's recipe due to lack of various ingredients (eg, I used ketchup instead of masala sauce!).  Still it's been an exercise in proof of concept mainly, specifically seeing how the flavour of the dish is with singed spices / tomato paste and browned garlic added later. So far results are inconclusive but tonight's attempt had a deeply delicious underlying flavour which I'm fairly well convinced is down to the tomato paste caramelising, the spices being fully cooked out and the first quench of the pan with 1 chef's spoon of base sauce caramelising some of the base.

Well, these are my imaginings anyway and many further attempts and side by side comparisons would be required to prove anything. All I can say is my curries are already twice as good as they were before I visited Zaal and all this has apparently come from the simple expedient of being brave at the spice-frying stage. It's pointless getting too carried away but I'm already confident I've made solid progress using this change in technique and there's more to come, I can feel it in my spice-infused water...! 

[curryhell]

Nice one NJ. That sounds about right.  Caramelisation and cooking out the spices fully then killing the process with a spoonful of gravy. Then it's good old reduction as usual. I'm sure once you have all the necessary roshney ingredients and you put them together you'll be pleasantly surprised. Things are on the up and the food can only get better with more practice. We're not over the finishing line but at least we can now see the bloody thing ;D

[jb]

Great report CH, what would the difference in Az's Bhuna, & your basic curry up until to the 1st gravy?
ELW

Sorry ELW, i'm no help on this one.  JB is the bhuna man.  I wasn't in the vacinity at time.  SP may even have a vid of it unless he was "singeing" his vindaloo at the time ;D

Guys,I may be good at skewering chicken for the tandoori oven but uploading footage onto computers I am not.I am sending my disc to Solarspice who has kindly offered to upload it for me(topman ;D).You can see me cooking the bhuna,as well as Natterjack blending the gravy with the industrial size blender!!

[parker21]

hi guys try this but up the chilli powder to 2 rnd tbsp! http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2369.0
regards
gary

[ELW]

Great report CH, what would the difference in Az's Bhuna, & your basic curry up until to the 1st gravy?
ELW

Sorry ELW, i'm no help on this one.  JB is the bhuna man.  I wasn't in the vacinity at time.  SP may even have a vid of it unless he was "singeing" his vindaloo at the time ;D

Guys,I may be good at skewering chicken for the tandoori oven but uploading footage onto computers I am not.I am sending my disc to Solarspice who has kindly offered to upload it for me(topman ;D).You can see me cooking the bhuna,as well as Natterjack blending the gravy with the industrial size blender!!

Hi jb, I'm looking to find out if bir bhuna is technique or ingredients, looking forward to the vid
ELW

[emin-j]

Nice one NJ. That sounds about right.  Caramelisation and cooking out the spices fully then killing the process with a spoonful of gravy. Then it's good old reduction as usual. I'm sure once you have all the necessary roshney ingredients and you put them together you'll be pleasantly surprised. Things are on the up and the food can only get better with more practice. We're not over the finishing line but at least we can now see the bloody thing ;D

CH,really enjoying every thread from all the guys who attended AZ's teach in and keep it coming 
Can you give any more detail on how far to cook the spices ? what to look for or what aroma to look out for when it's ready to quench with the first ladle of base ? I have at times fried spices for longer than my normal amount of time but have found the spices turn quite dark in colour and the resultant curry's taste awful  just a burnt bitter taste.
Also well done for attempting to recreate your curry from the weekend but without using identical ingredients to AZ I think you might struggle to match the taste you had on Sunday, also I don't see a mention of you using any whole spices as per AZ's spiced water and what with the results I've had lately using whole spices I think you are missing out on a lot of savoury flavour.
 

[curryhell]

CH,really enjoying every thread from all the guys who attended AZ's teach in and keep it coming 
Can you give any more detail on how far to cook the spices ? what to look for or what aroma to look out for when it's ready to quench with the first ladle of base ? I have at times fried spices for longer than my normal amount of time but have found the spices turn quite dark in colour and the resultant curry's taste awful  just a burnt bitter taste.

Hi emin-j.  How do i answer this one?  If i knew the answers to this i'd be as happy as Larry ;D.  I'm still working on what i need to achieve given my own cooking environment.  Everybody's is different.  I could say X,Y & Z but they would not necessarily work for you nor many other CR0 members.  As soon as i think i have something to share that will benefit other members, rest assured i will share it.  At the moment, i'm only 4 days into practice sessions after Sunday ;D  I am working as fast as i can though mate

Also well done for attempting to recreate your curry from the weekend but without using identical ingredients to AZ I think you might struggle to match the taste you had on Sunday, also I don't see a mention of you using any whole spices as per AZ's spiced water and what with the results I've had lately using whole spices I think you are missing out on a lot of savoury flavour.

This is key for me which is why i'm not bothered about the other ingredients.  On Sunday, i managed to create under Az's instruction  my favourite dish.  This dish tasted so very close to what my local produce.  The following night, i ate a house speciality, which included the naga chilli.  The dish created on Sunday was even closer to this than my regular dish.  This tells me that irrespective of gravy / mixed spice, techniques will produce very similar results with the same spices used.  The effect of the base and spice mix will be neglible.  If this wasn't the case then what i cooked on Sunday would be worlds apart from my local's dish and the one i ate on Monday eve.  My experience on Sunday tells me it's about technique.  Everything else is secondary and will only have a subtle influence providing you get the first bit right of course ;D.  I hope this makes sense.  So sorry i cannot provide more definitive answers at this point it time   Hopefully i will be able to, but they'll only be any good for some poor sod that is cooking on an electric hob like me

[ELW]

This is key for me which is why i'm not bothered about the other ingredients.  On Sunday, i managed to create under Az's instruction  my favourite dish.  This dish tasted so very close to what my local produce.  The following night, i ate a house speciality, which included the naga chilli.  The dish created on Sunday was even closer to this than my regular dish.  This tells me that irrespective of gravy / mixed spice, techniques will produce very similar results with the same spices used.  The effect of the base and spice mix will be neglible.  If this wasn't the case then what i cooked on Sunday would be worlds apart from my local's dish and the one i ate on Monday eve.  My experience on Sunday tells me it's about technique.  Everything else is secondary and will only have a subtle influence providing you get the first bit right of course ;D.  I hope this makes sense.  So sorry i cannot provide more definitive answers at this point it time   Hopefully i will be able to, but they'll only be any good for some poor sod that is cooking on an electric hob like me

..makes perfect sense
I will consider myself at square 1, once I can merge the oil g&g tom pur & spices in a pan into that 1 unique flavour, that we are all on about. Only then will I say I can reproduce bir @ home. Once I've got this down, it will open up all the other recipe's to me from Kris Dhillon(we may not liked her recipe's initially, but I'm sure if she or a chef cooked them for us,we'd go away with our tails between our legs  ) to CA's, Kushi & Ashoka. I could give more time to the pre-cooking of meats etc, & maybe fine tune a few recipe's, but as of now, I've no business tinkering with anything but the basics   : All other ingredients, including base gravy are purely chefs touches, which may or may not set the dish apart from the other guy down the road.
I'll admit to not yet having achieved this 1 aspect, the rest is straight forward.

Glad to see the hair splitting details of measurements being  dismissed also, after seeing a chef working maybe 3 x pans, adding ingredients with a large spoon, whilst talking to someone & hardly even watching the pans. ;D

I've had some poor curries, but even the worst have never tasted of raw powdered or burned spices, the smell of the raw mix powder should I think be completely gone from a properly cooked bir curry.

The hands experience the Fleet5 got at Zaal & Panpots Ashoka experience)http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.0, Bruce Edwards also saw it done(2 great bir reports), has shown me that the single most important thing is lost in print. 

Julian from c2g may reveal a bit more in his forthcoming ebook regarding technique, but I ask myself why its never emphasized in print.Maybe Abdul or Ifindforuhas some input on this?But they have never cracked a light. It may be second nature to an Asian chef, but with hindsight I think B.E should have spotted this glaring omission 

[ELW]

@ emin-j

I made the Kushi instead of Zaal base last night as I only had 1kg of onion & no veg ghee.(I'll make to spec next time round) I've never had any muslin net for the whole spices which are supposed to be boiled with the onions,so just boil them separately & add the water. I'm not sure if you've made this base, but it tastes great & I could easily eat it on it's own. I don't think it provides the taste of a final dish, but does give it great flavour. I've got whole spices down as a chefs touch rather than critical. That said, I will now add it to every base. as it's very simple to do.

The frying of the oil/tomatoes /GG & spice mix to add to it, I took way down further than usual in a pot, before adding water. Didn't really notice what that did...not down far enough I suppose

ELW