Topic: Whole Spice Experiment Pays Off !

[garty22]

On the subject of the extra depth of flavour found in restaurant curries (without using whole spices), and another thread here about a mystery 'anise' background in restaurant curries, there is a video on CBM Mick's blog where a chef sprinkles on his own home made garam masala towards the end of the cooking of a jalfrezi. It turns out this is not a blend, but simply dried and ground Indian star anise. He does seem to put on a fair bit too. I haven't tried this, but this does point towards the garam masala as being the secret.

[emin-j]

Welcome garty22, I think Garam Masala (or at least Bay,Cardamom,Clove and Star Anise) is the answer to achieving that savoury flavour that's difficult to produce in a home curry ( for me at least  ) and deserves more investigation, last night I made our usual Madras using the whole spices in the base gravy and it was full of aroma and flavour,just need to work out how the BIR's do it 

[ELW]

Welcome garty22, I think Garam Masala (or at least Bay,Cardamom,Clove and Star Anise) is the answer to achieving that savoury flavour that's difficult to produce in a home curry ( for me at least  ) and deserves more investigation, last night I made our usual Madras using the whole spices in the base gravy and it was full of aroma and flavour,just need to work out how the BIR's do it 

The makeup of garam masalas used by restaurants may go some way to answering the taste question. It's been mentioned but there is very little information available outside the trade. I would guess & say that hints at its importance, either right across the trade or chef specific. I have heard that bir chefs can quickly become expendable, to ruthless owners, once their methods are revealed. I suspect the use of whole spices may be limited to better curry shops who can factor the extra labour involved into their price. As you know, whole spices hold far more flavour, & could really set your food apart from the guy down the road. I may be wrong, but I can't see the bog standard ta's straying from the mass production methods, we're all aware of. It brings to mind the whole or chopped onions in the base. I always thought the whole onions were used to allow the chef to get on with something else, as they were going to be blitzed anyway
Star Anise...interestin, never used it in bir

Regards
ELW

[emin-j]

BIR's could be using whole spices via spiced oil in the main dish this would explain why their base gravy's taste quite bland but their curry's very flavoursome,I'm convinced Garam Masala/whole spices go a long way towards that missing 5% we talk so much about if my latest curry's are anything to go by  ;D

[martinvic]

Interesting topic, as the only time I seem to use whole spices is in cooking pilau rice or potato/aloo dishes (Panch Poran).

I was going to have a go at making Garam Masala, but there are so many recipes for it, that I'm not sure where to start.

One idea I think I might try with my next lot of Chewys excellent base, is to boil/infuse some whole spices in water, strain, and then add to the base.

Think it might be a pretty clean and easy way of doing it, instead of fishing them out by hand, using a spice ball/muslin bag or just blending them into the base.

Not sure how much to add at the moment, but was thinking of adding the usual main Garam ingredients plus a little Panch Poran.
I might then compensate this by reducing the amount of spice mix added to the base.

Any thoughts on this?

Martin

[curryhell]

Personally, i think this is a very interesting line of enquiry.  Some people would say this doesn't happen and any whole spice found in your takeaway either comes from the rice or from the prepartion of the meat.
This topic has never been thoroughly explored.  There are a couple of threads where positive comments have been made after having included whole spice in dishes.
For those fortunate enough to have witnessed gravy being made, what is your experience?
Maybe the dream team off to Az's on Sunday week can ask this question on our behalf

[ELW]

Personally, i think this is a very interesting line of enquiry.  Some people would say this doesn't happen and any whole spice found in your takeaway either comes from the rice or from the prepartion of the meat.
This topic has never been thoroughly explored.  There are a couple of threads where positive comments have been made after having included whole spice in dishes.
For those fortunate enough to have witnessed gravy being made, what is your experience?
Maybe the dream team off to Az's on Sunday week can ask this question on our behalf

This base: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3199.0 taken from a bir report, apparently uses cumin seed, rather than powder. The recipe, as taken from the op's notes which were given to him by the chef, say powder. The op said he saw seeds, & from what I can make out from the photo, it looks more like whole spice in the big pot of onions. I'm not sure my jug blender could deal with cumin seed very well, which could partly answer the question. *note no use of mix powder in any of this stuff? GM & curry powder only** It does mention the chef preferring East End spices, but the brand of curry powder is unknown
ELW

[George]

(fragrent Asian not the European rubbish).

Your rude comment (above) detracts from the rest of your post. Anyone who thinks European bay leaves are rubbish has a lot of learning to do.

[martinvic]

For a bit of fun, just had a quick go at making a small amount of GM.

Had a look at a few recipes and chose this one, as it didn't contain coriander seeds (which I'm out of anyway).

I did make a couple of changes/additions (in brackets) to suit my store cupboard.
Oh and I really like Panch Poran, and noticed some of its ingredients were used in some GM recipes I found, so added a some of that.


Garam Masala

 Makes approx 3 Tbsp.

1.5 Tbs black peppercorns
 3/4 Tbs black cumin seeds (1 heaped tsp normal cumin + 1 tsp panch poran)
 1.5 tsp whole cloves
 4 large brown caradmon pods (5 small green pods)
 2 inch stick of cinnamon (cassia)
 1/2 a whole nutmeg
 2 star anise
 (2 small bay leaves (fragrent Asian not the European errrr ones)).

Gently roast all spices in pan, break into small pieces, remove seed from pods and grind everything to a fine powder in a coffee or spice grinder. Sieve and store in a tightly lidded small jar.


Lovely aroma, and from a quick, finger dip, taste test, had much sweeter and smoother taste than the only GM I have left (Fiddes Payne).

Be interesting to have a go at cooking with it now.


As an afterthought on my Boiled whole spice idea.
I might make a small amount, as an experiment, probably using the same ingredients as the GM, and freeze it in ice cube trays. Then can add it to defrosted base or curries when required.

Not actually sure if this would be any different to just adding the GM, but whole spices would be more boiled in a base, rice and potato cooking.

Martin

[spiceyokooko]

Your rude comment (above) detracts from the rest of your post. Anyone who thinks European bay leaves are rubbish has a lot of learning to do.

Blimey George, you're a bit nitpicky aincha!

My interpretation of that comment was that European Bay Leaves are rubbish when used in Indian Cuisine and particularly the BIR variety, which I must agree with. But that doesn't mean I think European Bay Leaves are rubbish when used in Mediterranean cookery - because that's where they work best flavour wise.

I think it's a fairly common mistake that new cooks to Indian cuisine make to use the European variety when they should be using the Indian variety - but it's a mistake borne out of innocence and lack of knowledge than anything else.