Topic: Running out of ideas

[Razor]

Hi DD/ELW,

I think that you're being too hard on yourselves, I really do.  YOU may not believe that you are upto TA/BIR standards but what do your family and friends think?

I know my bro in law thinks that my Bhuna is the best he's ever had, from anywhere.  My best mates wife says the same thing about my Jal Frezi.  I'm never too happy with my madras but my brother loves it and asks me on a regular basis to "knock him one up"

I know it's been said a thousand times on here over the years but, I'm going to say it again......WE ARE OUR OWN WORST CRITICS..!

Do you honestly believe that you can't recreate food equal to your fav TA/BIR? because  I believe that both of you could and I'm very confident that if either one of you was to make me a good Jal Frezi without me knowing it wasn't TA, I wouldn't know the difference (unless you are really poor cooks, which I doubt very much)

I'm working on the last 5 percent at the moment.  I'm training the wife (and eldest son) to make curries exactly to the spec that I use, and in time, they will be very proficient (at least that's the plan) and I'm sure that it's going to take it to 100 percent, because I won't have slaved in the kitchen most of the day and get zoned out by the time the ruby's on the table.

Just my theory,

Ray

[madstwatter]

I think you have got it spot on Ray. I have recently warmed up my finished madras the next day and it tastes fantastic. Not because the taste of the food has improved but my taste and smell have returned to normal.

A while back I got a takeaway from my closest local takeaway then came home and immediately knocked up a madras as a side by side comparison. Other than being a little sweeter I could hardly taste a difference which surprised me because I was always sure that there was a fundamental flavour missing in my own dish.

Nick

[ELW]

I know it's been said a thousand times on here over the years but, I'm going to say it again......WE ARE OUR OWN WORST CRITICS..!

Hi razor, agreed  i'm seldom 100% happy with my cooking, Im sure the hit on the senses while cooking is the cause... I've tried one of my dishes next to one of my local bir's, next day. The difference in flavour is stark, the source of the flavour, I can't quite pinpoint..it's there even in a korma which has minimal spicing. Im thinking the base cooking or base ingredients is  the key to this background & it may have the taste on its own....or maybe not 

Made lots of great stuff from this site, CA Ceylon was great with nann, but didn't have the right background flavour...sifted through this site from 06 stuff to present & found loads of conflicting information, from ali pans, to mix powders,  so just I try and narrow it down my own way.Never have i seen a subject tested to death like this one  ;D

P.s I think ill start an apprentice also so I can sit on my a*** & eat!

Regards
ELW

[emin-j]

All interesting stuff Guys ,
Have you ever had a Curry from your usual t/a that wasn't up to their usual standard ? I know I have and also wondered what they had done that was different,I have on occasion made a Curry that was better than a good Curry from my local t/a and wondered what I had done different  I don't think we are far away so keep at it Guys     

[curryhell]

As Ray said stop being so hard on yourselves.  And no DD the quest is not over yet, unless you're gonna throw in the gauntlet mate, which i hope you're not .  Nobody said that this was ever going to be an easy task guys.  What we're trying to do is a full time apprentiship on a worse than part time basis with only this site and our own experiences / ideas and those of other members to mentor us.  That's a pretty tall order by any standard .  I've been trying to crack this for 20 plus years.  God i can remember the early days and the disasters :.  How far i have come since then .  But i still probably have as far again yet to go .  But i now cook better indian food than ever and when i serve it to others they think it's the real deal .  But of course i don't as none of us do.  Side by side is always a good comparison to see how close you're getting.  But don't get dishearened when there is a marked difference.  This is guaranteed.  You will get that result by placing the same dishes from different takeaways side by side.  As this site has testified all chefs have their own spice mix (albeit very similar) an their own methods.  By trying them all we'll develop our own to.  I never thought i'd see the day when i prefer to cook my own dishes rather than dial a dinner -  but it has arrived .  Every time i cook it's like being in the classroom, learning something I enjoy but struggling as usual to take it all in .  That doesn't mean that i don't enjoy going out to  a BIR or having a take away.  It's nice just to sit down and eat what the "professionals" have cooked, just for a change.  It reminds you of where you're trying to get to. 
I'm sure if i dialed a curry and not knowing that a CR0 member had cookded it, i'm sure i'd say it was good but it must be chef's night off.  Very unlikely i'd pick up the phone and say "what kind of crap is this. I want the next one free of charge".  And believe me i've done that on a couple of occasions.  Enough said :-X

[Masala Mark]

Hi,

In regards to the missing flavor and the overload of the sense of smell when cooking the dishes, I think unfortunately it is a red herring.

My reason for saying this is that when I started training in the restaurant here making the base gravies, I would start at 2:00pm, cutting onions for the first hour, then making the gravies for the next 3 hours.

Around 6:00pm things start getting busy and depending upon how much is going on, I will either be grabbing ingredients for the chef or cooking the dishes myself, under his watchful eye. As part of my training the chef would get me to taste the dishes while we were cooking. And I can say that even after standing in a very small shop where there is no separation between the kitchen and the front counter, the dishes tasted perfect and smelt perfect, even after cooking very large amounts in a very confined space.

Admittedly when I got home my wife says I stink of curry and fried samosas etc, but I can't smell it, but I could certainly taste how the curries were supposed to taste, and smell how they were meant to.

The bases are full of spices, no such thing as mixed powder, it is similar in process to Ashoka whereby multiple gravies are made which have a large amount of spices and are then mixed to make different dishes, with only a sprinkle of spices at the cooking stage. Ie for Chicken Tikka Masala, butter gravy is used along with a pinch of black pepper and methi, onion and capsicum, and a little cream. A Rogan Josh is a mix of onion gravy, butter gravy, tamarind, pinch of mace powder and a little sugar and salt. Madras is mustard seeds, curry leaves, chili powder, onion gravy, coconut milk powder and a pinch of salt. Butter Chicken is nothing more then butter gravy, pinch of salt, pinch of garam masala, cream and methi.

As much as I have learnt from working in the restaurant, I have also learnt that it is sometimes so much more enjoyable to go and pay the $40 for 4 dishes locally and sit back and enjoy them thoroughly rather then spending 4-6 hours making the base gravies and dishes.

Cheers,
Mark

[ELW]

Hi MMark, how many other gravies do you know of being used where you are? I've heard of makhani gravy only once but disregarded it as non critical due to most of the bir reports on here stating that most dishes are knocked out from the base alone, patia, aside. The makhani gravy is more or less a basic gravy with butter & cream, but I was never sure how much it was used...do you have any recipies for these?

@emin-j - Ive had a few really bland curries, mostly too watery, with not enough reduction, taste was there but minimal.
bunjarra/banjarra paste has hints of it, but not enough from a chefs spoon
Regards
ELW

[Masala Mark]

Hi ELW,

We do the following gravies to make the dishes with.

Onion Gravy
Butter Gravy
Korma Gravy
Veg Gravy
Vindaloo Gravy
Seafood Gravy

Each gravy is cooked from scratch and contains different ingredients. When a final dish is being prepared that contains multiple gravies, the different spices used in each gravy create a subtle difference in the finished dish. No  BIR mixed powder is used in the finished dishes as the spices are all contained in the gravies with the exception of finishing spices, black pepper, chili powder or garam masala.

The Veg Gravy for example is used for vegetarian dishes and contains besides a different spice mix, some whole seeds, (cumin, mustard, kalongi, fenugreek, fennel seeds) which are added at the start, along with some other whole spices. This adds a different depth of flavor as there is no meat/chicken stock added to the final dishes.

The Butter/Makhani Gravy has some whole spices added to hot oil, once they darken and expand/pop, the onions are added in and cooked/fried for a good 40 minutes till the volume has reduced by about half. At that point a big handful of methi leaves goes in and it fries for another 40 or so minutes with some salt added at this stage, and cooked until they have reduced right down and are quite dark. In goes the masala mix which is fried for a couple of minutes, then in with the ginger and garlic paste, cooked for another few minutes. Next comes tomato paste(the thick concentrated stuff) and a little water and then a whole lot of blended cashews, some food coloring and sugar. That is then bought back to a boil carefully so as to not have anything burn on the bottom and then it is cooked for on low heat for another hour or so till the oil starts to rise to the surface.

For our 'butter dishes' (Butter Chicken, Paneer Butter Masala etc) there is no actual butter ever added, strange but true! And it is by far the best Butter Chicken I have ever tasted.

The only issue with the 'curry mixing' that we do is that it is a whole lot of work to do just at home having to make 4-6 gravies, I don't like seafood so never worry about making that one at home.

Cheers,
Mark

One thing I forgot to add is that no Pataks or bought pastes are used at all, all masalas used for the gravies are made from scratch along with almost all of the condiments, ie the tamarind sauce, mint sauce for pakoras etc. A couple of packet mixed spices are used ie Bombay Biryani Masala and Chaat Masala, and a couple of pickles are bought as well as they are too time consuming to make.

[Derek Dansak]

Hi mark, i have largely given up on using spice mix in the final curry as it never tastes how i would like. I do prefer the approach you describe of adding all the spice in the gravy.
    I think you have descibed enough here to let me do some trials at home, using my own version of butter gravy from a book i own.  Could you elaborate on how you make the vindaloo gravy ?   

[Cory Ander]

Hi mark, i have largely given up on using spice mix in the final curry as it never tastes how i would like. I do prefer the approach you describe of adding all the spice in the gravy.
    I think you have descibed enough here to let me do some trials at home, using my own version of butter gravy from a book i own.  Could you elaborate on how you make the vindaloo gravy ?

Hi DD,

You probably appreciate that (although Aussie Indian restaurant curries can be...hmmm....tasty, in their own right), that Aussie Indian curries are no where near the same as BIR curries.  So their methods are appreciably different from BIRs (as, I am sure, MM will substantiate).