Topic: Re-Claimed Oil, an answer from the Kushi restaurant

[raygraham]

Hi All,

I contacted the Kushi Restaurant via e-mail about the question of the use of re-claimed oil in the final curry dish.

I have asked a number of questions since recieving the book and each and every one so far has been very promptly answered so I can only say "Thank's Kushi" for that!!
I also sent them a photo of the finished dishes I made which I also posted here and they have added them to their website.

My latest question has been about the use of re-claimed oil in the final dish and they have written their answer below. I think it makes an interesting read so have included all they have written to me.

My original e-mail said...................


Hi Andy and Mohammed,

I have just seen my Balti and Patia photo in your help and support section and it looks great, thank-you for using it.

I do have a further question which I hope you may answer.

It is " when you cook in the restaurant do you use fresh oil in each dish or do you use oil that has been taken from previously cooked dishes that has the flavours of the curry infused in the oil?
I have heard that oil added from previously cooked dishes gives a more authentic restaurant style flavour and wonder if I save some oil back from a previously cooked meal or from the base sauce this might enhance the flavours of the next dish I make. Can you offer any advice for me? I am going to try another two recipes from the book this weekend.

Regards

Ray Graham

Keighley, West Yorkshire

The reply was..................


Dear Mr. Graham,

Thanks for your email - and thanks again for the photo, which is great!

In terms of the 're-using oil' question, we've had a couple of other queries about this - as it's clearly a technique used by some curry restaurants.? However, it's not a technique Mr. Haydor uses in his restaurant due of customer demand.? One of the hotly-debated differences between Balti and traditional curry cookery is the issue of Baltis being "fresher" - and using 'clean' oil gives that end result.? (Although there are, no doubt, Balti restaurants, which DO use re-use oil.)? Below, I have copied part of a reply which we sent to another reader who asked just the same question about oil re-use, which I hope is useful to you.?

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with trying it yourself (using extra oil in the base sauce or finished dishes), and keeping some back for future dishes.? You may find it makes the result even better for your particular taste.?

I know that's not the most complete reply in the world, but I will look into this more over the coming months, and I'll let you know what I find out.

I hope that helps - (to a certain extent!)

All the very best, and good luck with future dishes.

Kind regards,

Andy Holmes
Authentic Balti Curry


This is the extract from a separate query about using extra oil to re-use in future dishes..............

"The technique of using a lot of oil in base sauce is not one which Mr. Haydor uses in his restaurant, simply because of customer demand, and that?s what we?ve tried to reflect in the book. It?s also a technique which rather pre-dates the Balti culture, which is a comparatively new restaurant cookery technique.
From personal experience the use of this technique varies from restaurant to restaurant, and in various parts of the country. Because of the fact Mr. Haydor doesn?t use this technique in his restaurant, it wouldn?t be right for him to recommend how to do it ? but what we would recommend is that you experiment with it ? just to satisfy your own curiosity.
It sounds like you?re quite a confident cook, and it?s the best way of learning!"

So there you have it folks. Hope this sheds a little more light on things for us all.

I don't know who this last reply was sent to but I wouldn't mind betting it was one of us from the cr0 site!

Anyway, I have sent a thank-you to the Kushi for their advice who seem on the face of it to be fairly willing to offer some help and advice.

I think it now perhaps clarifies for us that re-claimed oil is certainly used as a "taste enhancer" in some restaurants. It also clarifies that "Balti" varies in tastes and techniques from the "BIR" methods and should now be accepted as having it's own deserved? place in the recipe books in it's own right.
The Kushi Book is a "Balti Book" and as such has differences to the taste's we want to achieve.
It suggests there are variations in taste dependant on style and location so our site members may all be experiencing different tastes to one another which make's the task of finding the answer even harder, if indeed a general answer exists.!

But whatever the answers are it is clear that the curries we all enjoy are so very diverse in their preparation, methods, techniques and tastes that we have all got such a lot of information to go at and a lot more to come before we are all satisfied we have reached that ultimate goal!

Definately "food for thought" !


Regards

Ray G

[John]

It?s also a technique which rather pre-dates the Balti culture, which is a comparatively new restaurant cookery technique.

Are they saying that this technique was used before balti arrived one the scene ?

[raygraham]

It?s also a technique which rather pre-dates the Balti culture, which is a comparatively new restaurant cookery technique.

Are they saying that this technique was used before balti arrived one the scene ?

Hi John,

I took this comment to mean just that.
It seems to be saying that the use of re-claimed oil has been around a long time ( longer than Balti cooking itself ) and that Balti is a relatively "new invention" not using the re-used oil technique.

From my own point of view I am still a bit mystified when this Balti fad came into being or exactly when and where it was invented. I can't put my finger on when it arrived in Britain, it seems to have been around a long time now. But it is apparent nearly every restaurant you look at carries the "Balti" logo either on the shop front or plastered all over the menu.
Maybe it materialised as an idea to increase otherwise flagging sales and introduce a new modern product to breath some new life into the curry restaurant trade.
Might be interesting to try and find out the history behind it all.
Whatever, it's certainly here to stay!
Ray

[pete]

I remember seeing a few tv reports on the Balti craze in the 90's
The emphasis was on "fresh"
I guess this would be because they didn't use curry gravy oil
Obviously that was never said, in those exact words
I have seen two balti demos at seperate places
Both used the old oil
Clearly these weren't "proper"baltis
They still tasted BIR and were lovely though
I reckon real baltis must taste a bit like "homestyle" indian cooking
There definitely won't be any re used oil in that
It's probably for this reason, you hear that asians don't like BIR meals

[raygraham]

Hi Pete,

So, perhaps what we now have is essentially THREE styles of cooking. BIR, Balti and Homestyle, each with it's own methods, ingredients and techniques. this might even be sub-divided into regional depending on where they originated from...........gets complicated doesn't it!

I know of many Asian's who love BIR curries and have their favourite eateries around town yet at home cook very simple dishes and almost soley use Basaar Mix ( which I had never heard of until recently! ) for the spicing. Plain, simple and quick but everything tastes about the same.The food is good but miles apart from the BIR taste we love.

One Asian family I know who live in Lancashire regularly drive 30 miles up the M62 to get a take-away from a Bradford Restaurant as they think it is the "best for mile's"!
I have been there myself and it is very good but not the best to me!
However, I do think as a rough guide where you see Asian's eating the food can usually be recommended and is a good sign to us as a place to try.

For instance Akhbar's on Leeds Road in Bradford is literally queued out at the weekend's many being Asian families out for their tea. Every seat is occupied all night long until 3.00 a.m. and it seats 120 or so.

Ray

[DARTHPHALL]

Thanks for another very informative post Ray (you are a credit to this forum).
Over the Christmas holidays when i make my 15 Onion base i will experiment with a re-used dish & non re-used dish (both with same ingredients barring the Oil) & i will post my findings if the end results deem it worthwile to.
DARTHPHALL..... .....

[raygraham]

Hi Darth,

Now that sounds like a good idea. A direct comparison of two identical dishes with only one change should prove the point I think.

I also believe if we make a few in-roads with the professionals so to speak and get a real restaurant chef on board it could help us along no end.

At the moment the Kushi Restaurant folk seem to be willing to share their knowledge and are grateful for the comments and feedback to their new book. I sent them a photo and some positive comments which I felt they deserved and it has given us a bit more insight into the mysteries of the BIR.
With luck and a bit more effort we can learn even more!

Keep us posted with your trial's.

Ray

[George]

From my own point of view I am still a bit mystified when this Balti fad came into being or exactly when and where it was invented.

I'm no expert, and I think there are much better explanations on various web pages, but my own understanding is as follows:

1. Balti-shaped dishes and other (very minor) elements of Balti technique have been used on the Indian sub continent for centuries.
2. Some BIRs in a particular area of Birmingham (UK) started publicising a 'new way' of cooking in the 1980s. They borrowed various romantic elements from 'back home' to come up with a new 'Balti' marketing image and revised flavours. They could, of course, use any old wok or pan. The key thing is the revised flavor which some people must prefer, I guess. I don't. I prefer standard BIR curries.
3. So the Balti fad which we know was invented in Birmingham and spread out from there as other BIRs climbed on the band wagon.

Regards
George

[pete]

I know of many Asian's who love BIR curries

I was told when Asians buy a takeaway curry, they are not served the same dish as we are.
The spicing is changed
One thing, I remember from the conversation, was that they are far more heavy handed with the cummin.
When you ask for these curries, they also have a special name
It may still be a Rhogan Josh or a Madras, but it has an added title, and does not taste the same.