Topic: To Ghee or not to Ghee, that is the question...

[raygraham]

Yep,

The 2 kg Khyber Brand Vegetable Ghee is the one I use too.

Seems like the most popular around Bradford.
I think the Pure Butter Ghee is less popular now due to it's artery clogging properties!
I can't say I have ever seen it used much at any BIR iv'e been to although some do seem to have an old looking tub knocking around.

I use the Veg Ghee in rice and sometimes on Naans and have tried it in curries as substitute for Veg Oil but can't say it adds much to the taste. Keep mine in the garage where it's cool and it doesn't seem to deteriorate at all. It tends to be a bit hard if it's cold but at room temperature spoons out like soft scoop ice cream.

Ray

[DeeDee]

Cheers for the excellent replies .. as usual.

Pete, how easy/hard is it to do naans?  I can bake bread so I'm guessing it's not miles off.  Also what's the timeframe from nothing to finished bread.  I mean should I make some a day before or same day as meal?

Cheers!

DD

[pete]

I use a tandoor
But here is a very good recipe from Paul Cleary (Pacman) :-



Naan bread mix at the restaurant

This is the mix I was taught by the tandoori chef it is used in both restaurants
This quantity is approximately 1/3 of the portion done in the restaurant
And is what I make up at home.

Part 1
Mix this in a measuring jug
1/4 pint of semi skimmed milk straight out of the fridge
? pint of cold water
1 large egg including yolk
1 teaspoon black onion seeds
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
1 teaspoon level of any baking powder not soda and do not be tempted to add more
2 tablespoons caster sugar
? teaspoon salt

whisk this up for 15 to 20 seconds

Part2
Get approximately 800 g /900g self raising flower and put it in a mixing bowl and add half the mixture. Mix this up quickly. Now add the mixture and kneed quickly until you get a good dough. This process should not take more than 2 minutes.The dough should be sticky but when pulled should leave the bowl without leaving any behind. You will have some of the mixture left at the end so
Don?t pour it all in. Discard any left over mixture.
Now pour veg oil . about 2 teaspoons. on your hands and quickly kneed this over the surface of the dough. This will take about 5 seconds it is merely to oil the exterior.

Part3
Let stand for one hour in the kitchen. The dough will not change size notably

Part 4
Wrap in clingfilm and put in the fridge overnight . The restaurants all do this.
You can use the dough now but it is not as good as when it returns to room temperature.

Part 5
Take out of the fridge about 4 hours before use. The dough must return to room temperature. It will be marshmellowy and light when you take the clingfilm off


FOR PLAIN NAAN ONLY

The chef will take a piece of dough . around a sixth to an eighth of the completed dough and lightly dust it with self rising flour. Then roll it into a ball
He will now flatten the dough to about 4 inch in diameter.
Now he will dip his hand in oil and cover one side only of the bread with it.
Pushing the oil across the dough and making it about 5 inch in diameter.

Now here is the tricky bit. The plain naan bread is never rolled out and the restaurant
Style bread is achieved by tossing the dough between the hands until the dough becomes about 3 mm thick. You can also achieve this by spinning and pulling the edge of the dough until it stretches out. The tandoori chef will usually take about 30 seconds to achieve this it takes me slightly longer. The secret here is that some of the dough will be thicker than others giving the bubbly effect when tandoored. If any holes develop doing this don?t worry about it, it takes a while to perfect. If you desperately wish to roll the dough press a few areas down afterwards to give it an uneven effect and finish it off by pulling it. The teardrop shape is NOT achieved  by the bread falling lower into the tandoor but by the chef pulling one end into that shape.

The bread is then stuck on the side of a low heated tandoor by its dry side and is cooked in around 2 minutes. The bread will start to develop lots of bubbles in around ten seconds.

For your first attempt it is best to get the dough down to about 1 - 2 mm as the bubbling will occur more when the dough is thinner.

If no tandoor is available then you will need to heat an iron griddle or similar until it is piping hot . Place the dough on this oil side up  and place under a grill. Cook for 2-3 minutes.
Do not put in an oven or you will end up with a giant scone.

If the dough does not bubble then the griddle is not hot enough OR the dough is too thick.

Once cooked lightly coat the bread with hot melted normal butter using a pastry brush.

[spiceboy]

Hi

came into this one a bit late but I am speaking from experience because I know the guy that owns the SWAD brand well. SWAD is a large and genuine Indian brand of various Indian foods which for commercial reasons does not export to the UK. However it does huge business with the USA and Middle East because of  arrangements with 2 agencies, Patel Bros (Raja) and Natco. It is the same company that also supplies Natco with its Sitar range of microwave meals and Tesco with micrwave rices - yes its that big.

Butter ghee is generally not used for cooking in UK Indian restaurants (cost). The oil most used is plain vegetable oil - mainly Pride brand.  Ghee is mainly used in home cooking as a flavouring for naan breads (brushed on hot) and for a few curry dishes for added flavour and aroma (sometimes for frying rice ie pilau) and also for sweets and puddings. The flavour is far superior to vegetable ghee (its the butter vs margarine argument) and veg ghee is merely a cheaper substitute. Also because butter ghee is high in fats veg ghee is also often used as a "healthier" substitute but it can contain all sorts of other rubbish that is just as bad for you (butter vs margarine again).

Butter ghee is basically unsalted butter which has been clarified and all the milk solids and water removed. It exists because unlike butter it does not require refrigeration to keep fresh and is therefore ideal for hot countries. It can also be cooked at very high temperatures without burning unlike butter.

Ghee may solidify slightly if kept cold but it does not require skimming or shaking, just use it straight from the tin.

Hope that helps some.

[Curry King]

Great post Spiceboy I don't suppose you know any other bits of info regarding restaurant curry 

[DeeDee]

Many thanks for the recipe Pete!! Top drawer!

Spiceboy, cheers for all the information.  It all makes sense now as I bought the Swad in Patel Bros here in NYC.  Please feel free as many insider beans as you like ....

:-)

DeeDee

[spiceboy]

Hi Curry King

I dont want to say too much about restaurant curries because I am in the business. Mainly because I dont know that much about the recipe side of things but I do know a bit about Indian cooking generally and ingredients specifically. I'd also hate to spoil all your fun! If anyone has any specific questions on ingredients I'd be glad to help when I can.

By the way, if anyone needs more info on ghee check this link http://www.natco-online.com/acatalog/info%5fC1430%2ehtml

Best Wishes

[pete]

Hi Spice Boy
                 what is the most common curry powder used in BIR's?
and is garam masala used at all?

[spiceboy]

Hi Pete

As with most things to do with Indian food, there is no simple answer to your first question.

The most popular curry powder will often depend on region. The 3 biggest players are East End, Natco and TRS - forget Rajah, while it may have a large presence in ASDA (and probably not for much longer) it is not recognised by Asian chefs as "authentic" and also costs more than the other Asian brands. Problems with Sudan Red 1 last year has meant the trade has given Rajah a wide berth.

TRS is big in the South East, East End is big up North and Natco is fairly evenly spread throughout the UK. Ignore anyone who says dont buy from supermarkets - if they mean supermarket own label products then I would agree - only inferior quality spices are used for these and they are often cut with wheat or rice flour which reduces the flavour intensity (supermarket buyers know nothing). However, any of the Asian brands sold in supermarkets ARE the real thing and are the same as any brand sold in Asian corner shops. In fact those sold in supermarkets are most likely to be the best of those sold in Asian corner shops. Of course you will find other brands but most Asian customers buy on price and it is these brands that use trade tricks to keep prices down - cutting turmeric with rice flour or adding colouring powder to bulk it up etc. As with everything you get what you pay for - dont buy cheap spices.

The big 3 all produce catering and wholesale packs of curry powder. Most spice producers for the UK Asian market will all produce bags of spice in 1kg, 2kg, and 5kg sizes - just because they have big bags of spice in their trolleys does not mean they are restaurant owners! Most Asian families will consume several kilos of spice in a month.

In my experience, Natco and East End curry powders are used by the quality restaurants (if used at all) and TRS by the lower end. However, a lot of restaurants wont use curry powder as it is made up from basic spice ingredients already used in the restaurant - making up a batch is easy and cheaper that buying the ready mixed powder - also curry powder is not really an authentic spice mix and a lot of chefs will simply mix their own to taste.

So the short answer to your first question (in my experience )is East End and Natco.

With regard to garam masala - yes it is used in restaurants and often as a replacement for curry powder! There are hundreds of recipes for garam masala and every chef has his own. It is most often used as a finishing spice added at the very end of the cooking process to add a bit of extra umpf to the dish. The most commonly used ready mixed garam masala will probably be by Natco as those chefs who use ready mixed will want the best and Natco brand is well recognised for its garam masala.

[DARTHPHALL]

Really great post SpiceBoy.
Would you post a list of commonly used Spices in the Take-away trade so we can all see if there are any we/I`ve overlooked, as there seems to be a particular smell to my favorite Take-away that I'm unfamiliar with, & i`ve never come across in any other Take-away.
I understand if you feel disinclined to post in depth on this subject & i thank you in advance for any information you may post on the matter.

Yours DARTHPHALL..... .....